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Open gun lengths


jstagn

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Government length slide lightened to 10oz with a 5.5" bull barrel attached to a 3 port comp and a STI or CK standard frame. For me that seems to have the best feel. Light enough to transition quickly but heavy enough that it doesn't bounce around like a ping pong ball. I tried a shorty for a few months but I couldn't get used to the feel.

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I would love to tell you it's possible to do all the research, make an informed decision, and be happy with your gear, but that's not what Open is about ?

Because the possible combinations are nearly endless, my best piece of advice is to borrow/rent/buy a used setup for a few months and try it out.  I've owned dozens of Open guns with barrel lengths from 5.6" to 4.1", no holes in the barrel to 12 holes, and they were all fun to shoot.  I think the one in enjoyed the most was my Bedell Super Shorty:  4.4" barrel, three holes, Ti comp.

 

_20150731_221118.thumb.JPG.9f340a9c56c23b628ccbc82751e4b2a4.JPG

 

It was fast, light and shot surprisingly flat for such a short gun.  In the end I sold it because it was 38 super and I tired of chasing brass, now everything I own is 9mm.

 

Weight is also a big consideration, steel gripped mid-sized open guns are all the rage right now, but I prefer them a little lighter; 40-42oz without a mag seems to be about right for me.

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After shooting full sizes and midsizes I'm on shorties now.  Same weight as previous guns, didn't change that.  As of now I absolutely don't want to go back.  Physically maneuvering around a same weight but smaller gun is nice.  And done right they shoot great.

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Hello: Everyone I know has gone back to full length pistols after playing with short or mid length barrels. Less powder to make major and a little more weight up front. Just take a look at what the top open shooters are using and if you get a chance to ask one why they use what they are using. Thanks, Eric

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7 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

I would love to tell you it's possible to do all the research, make an informed decision, and be happy with your gear, but that's not what Open is about ?

Because the possible combinations are nearly endless, my best piece of advice is to borrow/rent/buy a used setup for a few months and try it out.  I've owned dozens of Open guns with barrel lengths from 5.6" to 4.1", no holes in the barrel to 12 holes, and they were all fun to shoot.  I think the one in enjoyed the most was my Bedell Super Shorty:  4.4" barrel, three holes, Ti comp.

 

_20150731_221118.thumb.JPG.9f340a9c56c23b628ccbc82751e4b2a4.JPG

 

It was fast, light and shot surprisingly flat for such a short gun.  In the end I sold it because it was 38 super and I tired of chasing brass, now everything I own is 9mm.

 

Weight is also a big consideration, steel gripped mid-sized open guns are all the rage right now, but I prefer them a little lighter; 40-42oz without a mag seems to be about right for me.

You ever play around with steel grips on your bedell? I grabbed the one that came up last week, pretty much the same as yours and I’m tempted to throw a steel grip on it. I’m chasing the feel of my sv imm I sold a short while ago. I haven’t even shot the bedell yet lol just wondering if you ever went steel grip route with The bedell

Edited by Shmella
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28 minutes ago, Shmella said:

You ever play around with steel grips on your bedell? I grabbed the one that came up last week, pretty much the same as yours and I’m tempted to throw a steel grip on it. I’m chasing the feel of my sv imm I sold a short while ago. I haven’t even shot the bedell yet lol just wondering if you ever went steel grip route with The bedell

 

Never, I have a lot of steel framed CZs and Tanfoglios, so I never saw the point in making a 2011 feel more like a CZ

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I am shooting a 5" gun now as opposed to a full size, and it is better for me. I like the way that the middy feels. 3/4 length dust cover, steel grip, 2 big barrel holes (I could probably even go for 3 and be happy), light slide, and Ti comp. The weight is low and more centered than with a steel comp or full length gun, and I like that. 

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I currently shoot two full size Open guns.  The first is a full, wide receiver with 10 oz slide, bull barrel, two poppels and a 4-chamber, 5-port comp.  The second is a short, light frame with an 11 oz slide, coned barrel with no poppels and a 4-chamber, 5-port comp.  My main gun is a lot heavier in the front, but shoots way flatter.  I like shooting it better, most because I shoot better and faster with it.

 

I wanted another Open gun.  I had kicked around a 5" stroked gun, but decided against it.  The significant loss of velocity caused my the two 3/16" poppels decided me on a full size, but with changes.  I bought two Trubore blanks from Eric (Aircooler6racer) with his custom comp cuts.  He puts his cuts a far forward as possible, unlike Brazos and STI.  That leaves a lot of room at the rear of the comp for poppels.  That gives me an extra 3/4" - 1" of unrestricted barrel length before any gas is redirected.  So I should be able to use less powder to make 172PF.   If I don't need the poppels, I'll use even less.  That big in a small case like 9mm.

 

Technically, they won't be full size guns, because .035" had to be trimmed off the front of the slide to clear the comp.  If I decide on a fifth Open gun, it will be a 5" stroked gun with a coned barrel and a Ti comp.  Then I 'll sell the two I like the least.

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On 10/15/2018 at 6:01 PM, Aircooled6racer said:

Just take a look at what the top open shooters are using and if you get a chance to ask one why they use what they are using. Thanks, Eric

 

Not sure who you are watching.  Short is in and selling like hotcakes.  ESPECIALLY at the top of the food chain.  

 

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I shot a shorty I built for my son that I started shooting when he quit. Placed several matches with it. A friend shot it and said that was the most uncomfortable gun. It had several thousand rounds and needed a new barrel ,So I just built a full length gun and I never could get used to it. Went back to the Shorty, I can just shoot it better.

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35 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

 

Not sure who you are watching.  Short is in and selling like hotcakes.  ESPECIALLY at the top of the food chain.  

 

Will see who wins nationals and what length gun he will be using. Same goes for the ladies as well. I think full length will be the winner.

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2 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Will see who wins nationals and what length gun he will be using. Same goes for the ladies as well. I think full length will be the winner.

That will be a change.  A short or mid gun has won the last 3 for sure.  

Edited by Shadyscott999
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8 hours ago, gmantwo said:

Top shooters shoot what they’re highest paying sponsor wants them to shoot, generally. Now, what they shot to GET to that level, when they were paying for their guns, is another story


Not really.  At Akai every team guys get to shoot what he wants.  In all honesty I don't know anyone that is forced to shoot a particular configuration.  Thye may have to shoot from their builders catalog but beyond that...
This is video filmed yesterday of my 4" commander length gun with titanium comp and 177PF ammo.  The new shorties are as flat and many cases flatter than full sized guns.  That is why they are growing in popularity .  They aren't "soft shooting" by any means.  They really hit your hand hard but they pay off in spades with flat trackability and quick handling.  
I will ask Shay later, but I would be willing to bet 95% or better of the open guns he is building are mid and shorts.  
 

 

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17 hours ago, zzt said:

I currently shoot two full size Open guns.  The first is a full, wide receiver with 10 oz slide, bull barrel, two poppels and a 4-chamber, 5-port comp.  The second is a short, light frame with an 11 oz slide, coned barrel with no poppels and a 4-chamber, 5-port comp.  My main gun is a lot heavier in the front, but shoots way flatter.  I like shooting it better, most because I shoot better and faster with it.

 

I wanted another Open gun.  I had kicked around a 5" stroked gun, but decided against it.  The significant loss of velocity caused my the two 3/16" poppels decided me on a full size, but with changes.  I bought two Trubore blanks from Eric (Aircooler6racer) with his custom comp cuts.  He puts his cuts a far forward as possible, unlike Brazos and STI.  That leaves a lot of room at the rear of the comp for poppels.  That gives me an extra 3/4" - 1" of unrestricted barrel length before any gas is redirected.  So I should be able to use less powder to make 172PF.   If I don't need the poppels, I'll use even less.  That big in a small case like 9mm.

 

Technically, they won't be full size guns, because .035" had to be trimmed off the front of the slide to clear the comp.  If I decide on a fifth Open gun, it will be a 5" stroked gun with a coned barrel and a Ti comp.  Then I 'll sell the two I like the least.

In my experience, barrel length and holes (both size and number) are only one small part of the velocity equation. It seems to me that barrel manufacturer makes a way bigger difference than either of the other two.

 

Between my group of friends we have just about every kind of barrel on the market. KKM is consistently the fastest by a long shot. SV is glaringly the slowest. One of my friends in particular has a 5" KKM, with V6 holes and a 3/16" hole going straight up through the barrel threads. Even with it being shorter AND having more holes, it is faster than a full length SV.

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As you can see reading this (or any other gun build thread) is, as long as it is basically suitable for the division and 100% functional, the actual design details make so little difference that no one design can show itself to be enough of an advantage to make any difference in match outcomes. If the gun actually made that much difference then all major matches world wide would be won with guns that were the same, but they are not, we as competitors are just on a perpetual mission to attempt to purchase an advantage that does not actually exist.  

 

What does this mean? run whatever you like the look or feel or weight or balance of and accept that any wins or losses are yours alone.

 

 

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