Digging deeper into M&P9 Pro

[Bench]

So far I've basically done the "Burwell" trigger job:

1.) Polished trigger bar loop

2.) Polished the trigger bar engagement portion with the plunger

3.) Shaped the plunger to a more rounded profile and polished

4.) Polished the engagement face of the striker pin

5.) Minor flattening of rear of sear and polished

6.) Rounded and polished trigger bar engagement face of sear
Before I spring for an Apex kit of some sort what else can be polished up? 

What about the slide rails and frame rails? Anything else to promote function?

[StealthyBlagga]

I tried a Burwell DIY trigger job on my first M&P (before Apex M&P triggers were even a thing). Save yourself a lot of time - buy an Apex FSS kit. Anything else is a poor substitute.

 

You don't have to mess with anything else... mine have all been dead nuts reliable since break in.

Edited October 12, 2018 by StealthyBlagga

[stick]

2 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said:

I tried a Burwell DIY trigger job on my first M&P (before Apex M&P triggers were even a thing). Save yourself a lot of time - buy an Apex FSS kit. Anything else is a poor substitute.

 

You don't have to mess with anything else... mine have all been dead nuts reliable since break in.

I totally agree with StealthyBlagga.  Once I put the Apex FSS Flat faced trigger in my M&P it was done!

[MemphisMechanic]

If you want to continue the budget theme:

 

Glock 4.5lb striker spring.

 

Apex trigger spring, and striker block spring.

 

Pull the rear sight off, polish the striker block and round off the corners so it looks like the Apex unit.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Bench]

If you want to continue the budget theme:
 
Glock 4.5lb striker spring.
 
Apex trigger spring, and striker block spring.
 
Pull the rear sight off, polish the striker block and round off the corners so it looks like the Apex unit.
 

Doing everything budget wise to start off with, then on to changing out with a checkbook(I REALLY enjoy fiddling with the mechanics of the pistol even more than shooting some times [emoji12]). Polished and shaped the plunger and polished the hole it rides in. Do you do any rail work on the slide or frame?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[MemphisMechanic]

No benefit on a polymer gun. They’re already loose and sloppy as heck at the slide-to-frame interface. It’s inherent to the design, with modular rail assembles in a plastic frame, there’s going to be some deflection. Thus, you have a generous tolerance in the rails.

 

It doesn’t affect accuracy anway; not unless you’re willing to run a frame mounted optic on one.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Bench]

8 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said:

I tried a Burwell DIY trigger job on my first M&P (before Apex M&P triggers were even a thing). Save yourself a lot of time - buy an Apex FSS kit. Anything else is a poor substitute.

 

You don't have to mess with anything else... mine have all been dead nuts reliable since break in.

Since I'm a metal smith/jeweler I have the "need" to make metal work together better and shinier. If I didn't have this affliction I'd be buying the Apex kits first off right out of the gate. Maybe I do need a 12 step program. There's a Apex competition spring kit on the horizon for this gun...but after I've done all that I can do to it myself.

[Bench]

6 hours ago, stick said:

I totally agree with StealthyBlagga.  Once I put the Apex FSS Flat faced trigger in my M&P it was done!

So you dropped in just the Apex trigger and nothing else or the whole kit of trigger, sear, plunger, and springs?

[StealthyBlagga]

If it's a 9mm gun, an Apex semi-fit or gunsmith-fit barrel is also a huge upgrade IF your OEM barrel does not shoot well (none of mine did). The poor "accuracy" is due to slop between barrel, slide and frame, and is tough to fix on the existing barrel... maybe peening or welding in the right areas if you really know what you are doing. Again, for less than $200 that is not a hard upgrade to justify.

Edited October 12, 2018 by StealthyBlagga

[MemphisMechanic]

8 minutes ago, StealthyBlagga said:

Again, for less than $200 that is not a hard upgrade to justify.

 

It’s impossible to justify. Sell the mediocre gun and buy something from CZ or Wlather or Glock or...

 

None of the other polymer guns the M&P line competes with are in need of a $200 barrel to be able to stay inside the A-zone at 25yd with 147s. The fact that we all casually pay that tax due to their glaring design flaw? That is ridiculous.

 

Even after the Apex barrel, both of my Walthers (Q5 and ordinary PPQ) shoots an equally tight group, right there with my old M&P Pro around 2” at 25.

 

I sold all of mine and do not miss them. $200 tax to make it shoot straight, and they didn’t really adress it when they overhauled them with the 2.0? No thanks.  

 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[stick]

6 hours ago, Bench said:

So you dropped in just the Apex trigger and nothing else or the whole kit of trigger, sear, plunger, and springs?

Here's the kit I bought.  I also added the competition springs.  My trigger pull is 2 to 2 1/2 lbs

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/191836

[Bench]

7 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

It’s impossible to justify. Sell the mediocre gun and buy something from CZ or Wlather or Glock or...

Even after the Apex barrel, both of my Walthers (Q5 and ordinary PPQ) shoots an equally tight group, right there with my old M&P Pro around 2” at 25.

I sold all of mine and do not miss them. $200 tax to make it shoot straight, and they didn’t really adress it when they overhauled them with the 2.0? No thanks.

Probably should have had this conversation about 3 weeks ago...before the stripped out rear sight set screw. Hopefully that wasn't foretelling of other things to come. Just got rid of one crappy pistol to buy this one and now I see CZ SP09's for way under $400. I'm too old to go for Shadows...what barrel length are your shooting with your PPQ?

Edited October 12, 2018 by Bench

[Bench]

5 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said:

If it's a 9mm gun, an Apex semi-fit or gunsmith-fit barrel is also a huge upgrade IF your OEM barrel does not shoot well (none of mine did). The poor "accuracy" is due to slop between barrel, slide and frame, and is tough to fix on the existing barrel... maybe peening or welding in the right areas if you really know what you are doing. Again, for less than $200 that is not a hard upgrade to justify.

Thanks SB, I'll see what's going on once the other upgrades are in place and as a final as needed the barrel...would be nice.

[M1A4ME]

The P09 can be a sweet pistol.  Mine is the most accurate semi-auto center fire I've ever had/shot.  Recoil is there, but you have to pay attention to it in order to feel it.

[Bench]

Just now, M1A4ME said:

The P09 can be a sweet pistol.  Mine is the most accurate semi-auto center fire I've ever had/shot.  Recoil is there, but you have to pay attention to it in order to feel it.

Well, that may be a direction to head if this one doesn't work out the way I want it to. Thanks for the report on the 09. Do you compete with it?

[StealthyBlagga]

8 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

It’s impossible to justify. Sell the mediocre gun and buy something from CZ or Wlather or Glock or...

 

None of the other polymer guns the M&P line competes with are in need of a $200 barrel to be able to stay inside the A-zone at 25yd with 147s. The fact that we all casually pay that tax due to their glaring design flaw? That is ridiculous.

 

Even after the Apex barrel, both of my Walthers (Q5 and ordinary PPQ) shoots an equally tight group, right there with my old M&P Pro around 2” at 25.

 

I sold all of mine and do not miss them. $200 tax to make it shoot straight, and they didn’t really adress it when they overhauled them with the 2.0? No thanks.  

 

 

 

I don't disagree, but I just prefer the M&P platform and the Apex barrel converts it from a mediocre shooter to a tack driver that outshoots most other guns at almost any price. The others have their own problems too; for example, Glocks don't like lead bullets (unless you upgrade to the Gen5). S&W fixed the accuracy issue with the M2.0 and that is what I would have recommended, but the OP already has Pro.

[bigfish]

1 hour ago, StealthyBlagga said:

 

I don't disagree, but I just prefer the M&P platform and the Apex barrel converts it from a mediocre shooter to a tack driver that outshoots most other guns at almost any price. The others have their own problems too; for example, Glocks don't like lead bullets (unless you upgrade to the Gen5). S&W fixed the accuracy issue with the M2.0 and that is what I would have recommended, but the OP already has Pro.

Plus a M2.0 can be had for $400 plus a $50 rebate (recently expired) for a grand total of $350.  About half the price of a Walther or Gen 5 G34.  

Edited October 13, 2018 by bigfish

[bigfish]

8 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

It’s impossible to justify. Sell the mediocre gun and buy something from CZ or Wlather or Glock or...

 

None of the other polymer guns the M&P line competes with are in need of a $200 barrel to be able to stay inside the A-zone at 25yd with 147s. The fact that we all casually pay that tax due to their glaring design flaw? That is ridiculous.

 

Even after the Apex barrel, both of my Walthers (Q5 and ordinary PPQ) shoots an equally tight group, right there with my old M&P Pro around 2” at 25.

 

I sold all of mine and do not miss them. $200 tax to make it shoot straight, and they didn’t really adress it when they overhauled them with the 2.0? No thanks.  

 

 

But I shoot my M&Ps better then my CZ’s or my Glock and I can Buy 2 M2.0s with triggers and Dawson Sights for less then the of either one of my CZs.  At that point a barrel that cost about the same as an entry fee for some major matches is pretty easy to justify if it needed 

[Bench]

1 hour ago, bigfish said:

But I shoot my M&Ps better then my CZ’s or my Glock and I can Buy 2 M2.0s with triggers and Dawson Sights for less then the of either one of my CZs.  At that point a barrel that cost about the same as an entry fee for some major matches is pretty easy to justify if it needed 

Needs to have a multitude of rounds down the pipe and time will tell what else might be needed. Thanks.

[M1A4ME]

12 hours ago, Bench said:

Well, that may be a direction to head if this one doesn't work out the way I want it to. Thanks for the report on the 09. Do you compete with it?

Nope.  I just shoot for fun.

 

I got the P09 after getting a P07 and being impressed by it.  Also, Joe Mustangs videos of shooting his at 100 and 200 yds. helped me make that decision to buy the 9MM P09.  Mine has an RMR on it now but it shot nice groups prior to the RMR installation.

While sighting it in with the new RMR, 7 yds., wrists rested on the bag/bench.  Three shots aimed at the center, made an adjustment, shot 3 more at the target co. logo on the bottom right of the target and it was "on" so I decided to empty the magazine at the logo and put four more in the same spot/hole.  Seven yds. is not a long way but these groups look like the ones my K frame .38 specials shoot.

Link to one of Joe Mustang 99's P09 videos.  

   

[Bench]

Nice shoot'n M1!!!

[Jim Watson]

I have a Burwell trigger actually done by Mr Burwell and prefer it to any other plastic pistol I have seen. 

I have seen a number of Apex baggie jobs and am not impressed.  Some are ok but the main problem is that you don't know what you are getting, they come out different every time.  No doubt due to stamped parts in molded plastic with the tolerances of a Mattell. 

The only improvement for my use would be to get his attention again and have the same treatment on a 5". 

[Snausages32]

I have a M&P Pro Core, added the APEX gunsmith barrel and flat faced trigger kit.  I was between getting a shadow2 or upgrading the M&P, and saw it as win/win/win (3rd win is saving $$$).

 

Set this thing up for the purpose of shooting 3gun, while staying USPSA production legal (maybe i'll try USPSA next year?  Who knows...)

 

With the APEX barrel, there are known issues (saw this one first hand) of it not liking the 147s.  There would be many times that the 147 bullet wouldn't fit in the chamber all the way, and the slide wouldn't go into battery, or it would get stuck.  Switched to 124s, and I still love it.  When the 147s did work, they were amazing, but there was 0 consistency to it.  I was on stage 5 of 6 a few months ago, shooting 147s all day (for weeks without issue), then the slide locked, and doneski.  147s were just too tight - tried multiple brands - changed nothing - almost every single 147 would get stuck.

 

Trigger kit was a HUGE upgrade.  It's pulling right at 2 pounds.  No complaints there.

 

 

[StealthyBlagga]

15 hours ago, Snausages32 said:

I have a M&P Pro Core, added the APEX gunsmith barrel and flat faced trigger kit.  I was between getting a shadow2 or upgrading the M&P, and saw it as win/win/win (3rd win is saving $$$).

 

Set this thing up for the purpose of shooting 3gun, while staying USPSA production legal (maybe i'll try USPSA next year?  Who knows...)

 

With the APEX barrel, there are known issues (saw this one first hand) of it not liking the 147s.  There would be many times that the 147 bullet wouldn't fit in the chamber all the way, and the slide wouldn't go into battery, or it would get stuck.  Switched to 124s, and I still love it.  When the 147s did work, they were amazing, but there was 0 consistency to it.  I was on stage 5 of 6 a few months ago, shooting 147s all day (for weeks without issue), then the slide locked, and doneski.  147s were just too tight - tried multiple brands - changed nothing - almost every single 147 would get stuck.

 

Trigger kit was a HUGE upgrade.  It's pulling right at 2 pounds.  No complaints there.

 

 

 

The problem is with all bullet weights - I even have to load my 115gr Blue Bullets short to get them to fit in the chamber. It has not been a problem since changing length.

[Bench]

15 hours ago, Snausages32 said:

I have a M&P Pro Core, added the APEX gunsmith barrel and flat faced trigger kit.  I was between getting a shadow2 or upgrading the M&P, and saw it as win/win/win (3rd win is saving $$$).

 

Set this thing up for the purpose of shooting 3gun, while staying USPSA production legal (maybe i'll try USPSA next year?  Who knows...)

 

With the APEX barrel, there are known issues (saw this one first hand) of it not liking the 147s.  There would be many times that the 147 bullet wouldn't fit in the chamber all the way, and the slide wouldn't go into battery, or it would get stuck.  Switched to 124s, and I still love it.  When the 147s did work, they were amazing, but there was 0 consistency to it.  I was on stage 5 of 6 a few months ago, shooting 147s all day (for weeks without issue), then the slide locked, and doneski.  147s were just too tight - tried multiple brands - changed nothing - almost every single 147 would get stuck.

 

Trigger kit was a HUGE upgrade.  It's pulling right at 2 pounds.  No complaints there.

 

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm shooting 124's so sounds like there'd be no problem should I need to switch out barrels. Doing all the springs first then going for trigger...maybe.