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KrakenFan69

Yes, another 38 Short/Med/Long topic

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I have just purchased a S&W 627-5 PC.   I plan to shoot revolver div in IPSC.    I have something like 2,500 1F 38 Special Winchester cases.   I would load SC but I think I will have issues making minor there.  Then I had seen some posts way back when that I cannot for the life of me find on cutting 38 Special cases down to 0.900" (what I'm calling Medium Colt) but again, I can't find load data.   Then there is LC.   I could do that but was hoping to keep them as short as possible for speedy loading.  I have the Lee 358-158 RF and 356-124 2R molds.  I cast and Hi-Tek coat.   The 9mm are right at .360.  Can anyone point me in the right direction for load data?   I have TightGroup, VVN320, VVN340, Clays, Red Dot, WSF and more.  


Thanks for any ideas guys.   Super stoked to get into revo div!


Kraken Fan #69

Edited by KrakenFan69
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As far as case length goes. My personal opinion between short, medium and long Colt is - it doesn't matter.

 

I've done back to back testing between short Colt and long Colt in various reload situations and the data was within 0.1 second average.

 

Get the proper reload technique down and practice the hell out of it.

 

That being said, I love my long colts. I've been using the same cases for years and years. 

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Making minor in SC with VV320 is easy. Use 9mm data as a starting point, load light to start and run a ladder test until you make 130 pf and you’re good. 

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IPSC Minor is 125.   So if I use a 158 projectile I'll need to see around 823 fps.   If i switch to a 124 I'll be looking for 1048 fps range.  The only reason I thought I'd use "Med" is to get closer to Short Colt Length for reloads but I'm not sure I want to run 158's in SC.  I'm hitting around a 3.75 sec reload with .900" brass with 358-158 RF's just pulling from my pocket.  (hanging them on my pocket)   My Moon Clip Server ships tomorrow so I likely wont see it for another week in Canada.  Also, I only have the 3 moons that came with the gun and they are very wobbly with Winchester Brass.   I'll likely end up buying Starline this Winter but I've just got SO much Winchester brass laying around!  I kinda feel like I need to chamfer the cylinder more too.    It doesn't seem like it has too much done at this point.  Lots to do, buy and learn...

 

Replace the sights, get a holster, add a Houge Big Butt (not sure if I want finger grooves or not)

 

Kraken Fan #69

Edited by KrakenFan69

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I use med because my hands are large and I feel " cramped" with sc.

Using sc minor with 147 or 160 was easy.

Med seem to take almost as much powder as SPL in my 2 627's.

Shoots fine and extraction is easy though.

Pick your poison, good moons for the brass you choose then

practice!

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My buddy is running 160gr cast lead out of his 627. Not sure the load though. 3.5gr Bullseye behind a 150gr blue bullet works great though. Never heard of anyone failing to make minor except with full length .38 cases.

SC brass provides less wobble in moonclips, making it easier to hit the holes. Longer brass means a larger margin for error. This is provided you're using the correct moonclip/brass combination to remove as much wobble as possible. Not sure if you're using moons or speed loaders, I think longer cases work better with speed loaders but I've never really experimented.

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Plan is to use moons.   I have to order Starline Long Colt brass that I will likely cut to 0.900" then on to find the right moon clips.  For what it's worth I'm loading on a Dillon XL650.   I use a 38 Special size die, 9mm flare, 38 Special seating die and a 38 Special Factory Crimp die with a 40 S&W sizing ring inside on top of the 38 Special to make sure it can be adjusted down far enough.   The 40 is not used as it is part of my Lee Bulge Buster set up.

 

Kraken Fan #69

 

Edited by KrakenFan69

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I use Starline 38LC brass cut to .900 as well. I run a 147gr Blue Bullet or a 155gr RN powder coated bullet (from my bullet guy locally) over 4.0gr Win 231. PF varies slightly depending on 5" or 6" barrel but generally runs around 128. I only shoot SC and falling plate matches so I don't get overly concerned with the PF as you might for your game. I use moonclips. I get mine from either C.E.D. or Ranch Products.

Since I use .022 clips, they are more prone to bending than the .035 and .040 in my 929. I check for straight regularly and when I get a few bent ones I straighten them and keep going.

 

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10 hours ago, KrakenFan69 said:

   I have to order Starline Long Colt brass that I will likely cut to 0.900"

 

3 hours ago, Dr. Phil said:

I use Starline 38LC brass cut to .900 as well.

 

 

I'll play grumpy pessimist this morning. 

 

Why bother investing the time and effort, is that 0.1" really gonna make the difference?

 

#itdoesnt

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I agree with Alec, you make power factor easily with short or long Colt and they last a very long time. I'm still using short Colt brass that has been loaded at least 12 times, or more. I've lost a total of 6 rounds out of 1K in 2 years. I would rather have my cylinder reamed for 38 super instead of cutting brass, if I wanted to run that length. Just my opinion

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Doesn't matter much now.

Probably a lot of our experiments push the point of diminishing return.

Did it years ago.

Don't shoot it much anymore now with the 929.

OP wondered about loads with that specific length so I told him.

Guess we dummies should leave all the smart stuff to the pros...

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5 hours ago, alecmc said:

 

 

I'll play grumpy pessimist this morning. 

 

Why bother investing the time and effort, is that 0.1" really gonna make the difference?

 

#itdoesnt

 

 

 

Hey, I'm just trying to be like the cool kids ok?   lol.  Seriously though, I'm sure it won't make any difference (especially with me at the wheel) it's just what a read and was going to try it.   I got a new toy and want to play. It's kinda party if why I reload at all.  If it doesn't work I'm out nothing.   Loads will be decided prior to cutting any Starline brass  Just a guy looking for a decent 130 pf load.   Nothing to see here.   😎                                                                                     Kraken Fan #69

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited by KrakenFan69

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Your time is worth something.

Plan 1:  Use the 38 specials for practice, don't worry about the moon clips.

              Buy 2m of 38 short colt starline brass

              Get as many TK/Hearthco (contact him on this site) moon clips for starline brass

             

Plan 2:  Get above moon clips sized for winchester brass

               Continue to use winchester brass

               Use 38 specials

 

The advantages aren't in the .1 or .2 shorter case as much as it is "tight" moon clips.

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Got out today to test some loads.    0.900" Winchester case with 3.2 gn of Bullseye behind a Hi-Tek coated Lee 358-158 RF did fairly well.  I have a tendency to rush these shots when testing and called the left flier.   Shot at 15 yards.   If this load makes PF it has potential.   Had similar results with 3.2 gn VV N320 too.

 

Kraken Fan #69

3.2 gn Bullseye Offhand at 15 yards.jpg

Edited by KrakenFan69

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2 hours ago, revoman said:

I think the VV 320 will burn cleaner. Have never tried Bullseye 

If you don't mind my asking, what exactly is your reference then?  lol  I agree, it likely will.   VV is very clean.


Cheers,

 

Kraken Fan #69

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I guess my reference would be what I have been told about Bullseye but then again I have never tried it. Out of all the powders I have tried VV burns cleaner than the rest. 

🏻

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4 hours ago, revoman said:

I guess my reference would be what I have been told about Bullseye but then again I have never tried it. Out of all the powders I have tried VV burns cleaner than the rest. 

🏻

Me as well,  just teasing ya a bit.   VV is a tough powder to beat for sure!

 

Kraken Fan #69

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