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Do you load a single mag for PCC or use one for each string.

Do you load a single mag for PCC or use one for each string.  

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I was shooting with another GM at a match this past weekend.  He asked if I had big sticks for my SCSA PCC.  I immediately pulled out two 33rd Glock mags with TF extensions and a ETS 33rd mag with a mini MBX extension.  I inquired why he asked.  He said "why do you change mags after every string?  Perplexed, I looked at him and said It gives me a second to think about my next string. (I use 6 17rd glock mags) His reply got me thinking.  If you're on a roll, It keeps your momentum going and you can get into a groove.

 

What do you use?

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Don't shoot pcc, but the weight will change as you shoot.  One mag would increase that effect.  Since sc is about transitions it is something to consider.

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I have plenty of big sticks, but I still use one mag per.  Gun starts exactly the same every time, plus I take a second to re-set my brain for the next string.

 

(I'm a GM in PCCO, FWIW, which may be nothing.)

 

 

--

L3232

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pskys2 said:

Don't shoot pcc, but the weight will change as you shoot.  One mag would increase that effect.  Since sc is about transitions it is something to consider.

 

Speaking from personal experience, the reduction in weight isn’t really noticeable in a PCC that weighs five times as much as a handgun and is vastly longer (polar moment of inertia and all that.)

 

I never notice the weight difference in PCC. I always notice it in handgun divisions, unless they’re rimfire. :D 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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I use 6 ETS Glock 17 magazines...


Same here. Load each one with 10 rounds. Changing mags gives me a minute to regroup. I have to change mags with RFPO and RFRO so changing with PCCO works for me.

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Load glock mags with 10 rounds and change every string.  Keeps weight down.  Rifle more reliable with less mag spring pressure on bolt.  Gives a pause to regroup between every string and perform the same pre shot routine every time with the same feel.  First shot feels the same on every string.  Also, not only less weight, but the long mags also dangle weight far below the rifle.  I’ve seen a few guys run large capacity and you can see the magazine moving opposite of the gun at the bottom and then sway back and forth at every stop, especially on the stop plate.  Guy fighting momentum way below the gun.

 

(Also GM PCCO)

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Load glock mags with 10 rounds and change every string.  Keeps weight down.  Rifle more reliable with less mag spring pressure on bolt.  Gives a pause to regroup between every string and perform the same pre shot routine every time with the same feel.  First shot feels the same on every string.  Also, not only less weight, but the long mags also dangle weight far below the rifle.  I’ve seen a few guys run large capacity and you can see the magazine moving opposite of the gun at the bottom and then sway back and forth at every stop, especially on the stop plate.  Guy fighting momentum way below the gun.
 
(Also GM PCCO)

+1
Also GM PCCO


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8 hours ago, Thomas H said:

I have plenty of big sticks, but I still use one mag per.  Gun starts exactly the same every time, plus I take a second to re-set my brain for the next string.

 

(I'm a GM in PCCO, FWIW, which may be nothing.)

 

 

--

L3232

I'm also a GM.  I was thinking the same thing.  It gives me a minute to focus on the next string.

 

7 hours ago, ZackJones said:

 


Same here. Load each one with 10 rounds. Changing mags gives me a minute to regroup. I have to change mags with RFPO and RFRO so changing with PCCO works for me.

 

 

2 hours ago, Hammer002 said:

Load glock mags with 10 rounds and change every string.  Keeps weight down.  Rifle more reliable with less mag spring pressure on bolt.  Gives a pause to regroup between every string and perform the same pre shot routine every time with the same feel.  First shot feels the same on every string.  Also, not only less weight, but the long mags also dangle weight far below the rifle.  I’ve seen a few guys run large capacity and you can see the magazine moving opposite of the gun at the bottom and then sway back and forth at every stop, especially on the stop plate.  Guy fighting momentum way below the gun.

 

(Also GM PCCO)

I was thinking the same thing.

2 hours ago, Scootertheshooter said:


+1
Also GM PCCO


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You guys are reading my mind.

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Yup, I bring the mags from my production gun to the line with ten loaded in each of them.  Keeps the routine as if I were shooting rimfire. Routine = less thinking for me.

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Only 13 votes so far!  It's not very decisive 8/5. We need some people to vote.

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Reload between each string ensures you have a routine (mental reset) between each string. Also prevents the “oops I just ran out of bullets” moment common amongst newbies.  And the gun weight is consistent and lighter.  I also always step to the line with a minimum of six mags in case there’s a magazine related equipment failure mid-string.  

Edited by jkrispies

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46 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Reload between each string ensures you have a routine (mental reset) between each string. Also prevents the “oops I just ran out of bullets” moment common amongst newbies.  And the gun weight is consistent and lighter.  I also always step to the line with a minimum of six mags in case there’s a magazine related equipment failure mid-string.  

 

It is amazing how often people (of all skill levels) forget to reload mags when using big sticks.  So....not having to worry about it is something I appreciate.  (For people who use big sticks and say "it is so I can stay in the moment, and immediately get back for the next run," that's one of the issues I see, even among experienced and GM-level shooters.  They ARE in the moment for the next string, which means they forget to reload.  Do they forget often?  Nope.  Do they forget?  Yes, once in awhile.)

 

I don't only have my mags at 10 rounds, though.  True, if I need more than 10 I'm screwed, but I can shoot a LOT of rounds before I hit 30 seconds, and I'd rather have a 15 second run than a 30-second run because I had a jam, then had to reload because I was out.  So I load to 15 rounds---that's my personal compromise loading for PCC.  I have to significantly screw up to not be able to finish in 15 rounds, jam or not, but I'm not adding a lot of additional weight.  And I reload on each string, and use that reload to re-set, relax, breathe, and get ready for the next string.

 

I use a basic-quality Palmetto State Armory PCC, with a competition trigger, a Primary Arms Advanced microdot, and a simple cheap $50 comp on the end.  Nothing fancy, and the whole thing cost me under $800.  (I had the trigger lying around after I won it on a prize table.)  I'd don't specialize in PCC, I'm not a rifle shooter, and I spent exactly one year in PCC in USPSA for the fun of it---so it isn't like I practice a lot.  Yet----I didn't have a problem getting a 100% classifier percentage (technically, I'm at 103.9% or something) with that equipment and changing mags every time. 

 

I'm trying to think of the last couple of larger SC matches I've gone to---I don't think I recall any of the PCC division winners using big sticks for their runs, but I may be misremembering.  But....I don't think so.

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I don't ever run the big sticks but sometimes ifI'm shooting co and pcc back to back I'll take my limited mags and load them to 22 then I only need to take 5 mags instead of 11 which is nice.  Otherwise I usually load prod mags to 10. If you are in the moment and doing a simple in between string mag change screws you up, you definitely have bigger problems then a mag change. But at the end of the day everyone has their own routine and does what works for them,  so who am I to say they are wrong. 

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15 hours ago, jkrispies said:

Reload between each string ensures you have a routine (mental reset) between each string. Also prevents the “oops I just ran out of bullets” moment common amongst newbies.  And the gun weight is consistent and lighter.  I also always step to the line with a minimum of six mags in case there’s a magazine related equipment failure mid-string.  

That was my thought exactly.  It also gives you a moment to breathe and reflect on your last string.

 

14 hours ago, Thomas H said:

 

It is amazing how often people (of all skill levels) forget to reload mags when using big sticks.  So....not having to worry about it is something I appreciate.  (For people who use big sticks and say "it is so I can stay in the moment, and immediately get back for the next run," that's one of the issues I see, even among experienced and GM-level shooters.  They ARE in the moment for the next string, which means they forget to reload.  Do they forget often?  Nope.  Do they forget?  Yes, once in awhile.)

 

 

Been there, done that.  Nothing worse than hearing Are you ready? Stand by...  Beep Bang, bang, Click.  As a new GM, I can tell you it happens.  When my daughter shoots with me, I always have to remind her to reload.

 

12 hours ago, stango424 said:

I don't ever run the big sticks but sometimes ifI'm shooting co and pcc back to back I'll take my limited mags and load them to 22 then I only need to take 5 mags instead of 11 which is nice.  Otherwise I usually load prod mags to 10. If you are in the moment and doing a simple in between string mag change screws you up, you definitely have bigger problems then a mag change. But at the end of the day everyone has their own routine and does what works for them,  so who am I to say they are wrong. 

Routine is the key word. 

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93% in PCCO, so only M not GM. But I just use one mag. I do not want extra time to think between stages. I want to go go go.

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Hmm, some good thoughts on the mags.

 

I've been running with the big stick but will have to try running the normal mags loaded to 15 for an upcoming Classifier match.

 

AD

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I always load 6 mags to 10 rounds so I have a spare if something happens. Like most have said, I like the consistency of my routine so swapping mags every time is a must.


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On 10/12/2018 at 11:48 AM, ADulay said:

Hmm, some good thoughts on the mags.

 

I've been running with the big stick but will have to try running the normal mags loaded to 15 for an upcoming Classifier match.

 

AD

Worth a try to see if your times improve.

20 hours ago, 1911luvr said:

I always load 6 mags to 10 rounds so I have a spare if something happens. Like most have said, I like the consistency of my routine so swapping mags every time is a must.


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It seems this is the norm.  I'll probably stay with my 6 mags loaded with 10 rounds each.

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Probably comes down to what is reliable too.

I'd come down on either changing each run or NOT changing at all.

Would never want to go 3 runs and change, I can't remember what run I'm on half the time!!!

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On 10/12/2018 at 9:24 AM, rowdyb said:

93% in PCCO, so only M not GM. But I just use one mag. I do not want extra time to think between stages. I want to go go go.

 

This is interesting, and what I have seen may not pertain to you, but I know a few guys like this.  I usually try to RO for them because they are looking for a cadence through all 5 strings.  Two guys I know get pretty frustrated with the RO if he is not keeping the pace they like.  Especially if something out of the ordinary happens.  It’s like they are trying to shoot 5 strings as one.  I told one of them, a friend of mine, I thought he was leaving too much influence to the RO.  He will shoot well if I run him or another RO that is ready to go, go, go at his pace, but then he will shoot bad if the RO takes longer than he likes to communicate with the scorekeeper or otherwise not be “fast.”  I like to control the pace, giving plenty of time for scoring and what not.  Usually the RO is waiting on me to be ready, not the other way around.  Usually only a few seconds, maybe longer if I have to mentally regroup.

 

10 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Probably comes down to what is reliable too.

I'd come down on either changing each run or NOT changing at all.

Would never want to go 3 runs and change, I can't remember what run I'm on half the time!!!

 

We shoot together often.  When I shoot rfro, I use a 25 round magazine for my 15-22 and change after 4 runs.  I have definitely messed this up before.  Have a little different routine with that gun, but I know exactly what you mean.  The weight doesn’t seem to matter on this one, but I have learned to keep my pre shot mental routines the same between the 2 rifles.  You are right, and it gets harder to remember what run it is when other things happen, like reshoots, or a break in shooting due to tablet failure, etc.

Edited by Hammer002

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I find it easier to concentrate with not breaks for talking, thinking, or anything that can or could happen in the break between strings. I don't want to hear "good run", or even the time, or "prepare for you rnext string". I want to shoot, reset to the appropriate start position and then hear the commands and a beep. Nothing else.

 

I do this with Prod as well in SC. It's not that I care how long the space is between strings more than I really really care what that space is filled up with. If I set a quick tempo and am prepared quickly it gives less time for something I can't control to intrude on this space.

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I’m definitely a one mag guy, if I had a reliable 15-22 mag that fit 30+ I would do that as well. Changing mags breaks my concentration and if I need a minute to refocus I can just bring the gun down and take a breath. The thing that irritates me on the RO cadence is when then don’t maintain the same commands throughout the match or stage, some like to just say ‘standby’ then beep. 

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Next time that happens don’t shoot. Turn to the RO and say “I didn’t not hear Are you ready? So I was not prepared for this string. Kindly restart me with Are you Ready?”

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2 hours ago, Akkid17 said:

I’m definitely a one mag guy, if I had a reliable 15-22 mag that fit 30+ I would do that as well. Changing mags breaks my concentration and if I need a minute to refocus I can just bring the gun down and take a breath. The thing that irritates me on the RO cadence is when then don’t maintain the same commands throughout the match or stage, some like to just say ‘standby’ then beep. 

 

 

Yeah, that’s a no go.  Like Zack said, ask for the proper sequence.  Same as a, stand byyybeepyyy

8 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I find it easier to concentrate with not breaks for talking, thinking, or anything that can or could happen in the break between strings. I don't want to hear "good run", or even the time, or "prepare for you rnext string". I want to shoot, reset to the appropriate start position and then hear the commands and a beep. Nothing else.

 

I do this with Prod as well in SC. It's not that I care how long the space is between strings more than I really really care what that space is filled up with. If I set a quick tempo and am prepared quickly it gives less time for something I can't control to intrude on this space.

 

Respect your opinion, as well as the guys I know are the same way.  The best thing about this game is it seems to attempt to cater to what works best for each shooter.

Edited by Hammer002

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