Miss or equipment failure

[JAFO]

The term is a bit vague.  As I understand it, a wall support is offline from the actual wall.  Such as 45-degree supports that extend in front of or behind the plane of the wall to keep it from falling over.  It does not mean the wall or the wall legs in the same plane.

[tomjerry1]

So, I'm having a bad day, want a reshoot, so I just shoot through the wall and get a second chance? The wall, unless specified "soft cover", are impenetrable "hard cover", 9.1.6.  Except the supports that the wall is constructed with to make the walls?  I believe what is required is a definition of what is a "failure of props such as openings, ports, and Barriers" 4.6. These are non-moving parts of the course, so the openings, ports, and barriers don't move into the shooters view, the shooter didn't have the view? They are performing their function of obscuring the target. 

 

[perttime]

10.6.1 Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike. Examples of unsportsmanlike conduct include, but are not limited to...

Edited October 29, 2018 by perttime

[tomjerry1]

I've only been shooting USPSA for 7 years, so I haven't seen everything, but I have seen incidences like this, and shooters running over RO's, and demanding a reshoot. Granted, this is not a large  issue, but shooters do these things. I have even been told of and experienced these examples by senior NROI at level 2 & 3 matches. I have not experienced a shooter being DQ'd for these examples, to the opposite, they were given credit for the target, or a reshoot. Once again, if the definitions of "failure of props such as openings, ports, or barriers" were defined, and accompanied with penalties, would go a long way to correcting this issue. 

[JAFO]

I don't think this has anything to do with failures of props.  What they are talking about in 4.6 is an opening or port that doesn't open when it's supposed to, or a barrier that falls over if leaned upon.  If you shoot through a wall at a popper because you misjudged your offset, that's REF.  If you stop in the middle of a mesh wall and shoot through it to knock over a popper, then look at the RO and expect a re-shoot, I'd consider that unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

I think shooters getting reshoots for running into the RO are often given because the RO thinks, "I shouldn't have been so close" or "I could have moved out of the way faster".  I've never seen it  personally, but I also have never been to anything higher than LII.  I seem to recall a story years ago about a shooter who was attempting to get a reshoot that way, but the RO stayed far enough back that it was quite obvious the shooter was chasing after the RO with one intention.  I'd imagine when you have a blatant example like that, it's a no-brainer for unsportsmanlike conduct.

[tomjerry1]

JAFO, I agree with your comments, but have seen both occurrences.  I do also agree that RO's need to be aware of their presence to the shooter and the stage, so that running into each other can be avoided. I have been challenged by a shooter for target score, for shooting through the wall support, through a port/opening, and over turned by the MD. Other wise, why tape over the wall support to cover the hole from a prior shooter? 

 

Looking at the rule book again,

8.6.4    If the shooter and RO conflict on the course, the RO can offer the shooter a reshoot, not the other way. The rule also states that if the shooter commits a safety infraction, I would assume purposely running into the RO, a 10.3 will be issued. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by tomjerry1

[waktasz]

Purposely doing it would be an unsportsmanlike DQ...the rule you referenced there means if you bump into the RO and also somehow break the 180 or do any other DQable offense, you may still be DQ'd. 

[waktasz]

21 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

I've only been shooting USPSA for 7 years, so I haven't seen everything, but I have seen incidences like this, and shooters running over RO's, and demanding a reshoot. Granted, this is not a large  issue, but shooters do these things. I have even been told of and experienced these examples by senior NROI at level 2 & 3 matches. I have not experienced a shooter being DQ'd for these examples, to the opposite, they were given credit for the target, or a reshoot. Once again, if the definitions of "failure of props such as openings, ports, or barriers" were defined, and accompanied with penalties, would go a long way to correcting this issue. 

 

There is already a rule for this regarding hits on steel through hardcover.