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RustedFrog

Slide mounted Dot

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I just got my open gun back today and the only thing I have left is to pick a dot and get it put on. I have two that I already own and can put on that I will probably go with one or the other. My plan was to go with a frame mount and either a Delta Point or a Fast Fire. I have been shooting a slide ride for the last four years and everyone is telling me that I will be faster with a frame mounted dot because it will not move as much. But several of the local shooters have actually switched back to slide ride because they prefer that. I am wondering what other peoples opinions on this is and why? I understand that you will not lose your sight as badly but I feel like if my grip is good and consistent then it will be right back were it is supposed to be before my eyes ever know that it left. But am I just thinking this because I have never shot an open gun with a frame mounted slide. Slide mount is the only way I have ever shot one. 

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I shot for a year with a slide mounted dot, and this last season switched to a frame mount, and it's night and day different. I too was in the camp of "slide mounted is just as good!" until I tried a frame mount for the first time. Now a lot of that could be attributed to switching from a Burris Fastfire 3 to a C-more Railway, and the difference in window size, but I think it's still drastically different, even if I were to switch back to the Burris.

 

My pitch to you, and to anyone else who's considering using a slide mounted optic over a frame mounted optic for Open Division is think of it in terms of reciprocating weight vs. non-reciprocating weight. When you mount a red dot to your slide near or in lieu of your rear sight you're adding weight that has to move, or reciprocate, every time the action cycles. And you're adding it to the back of the slide too, which is the worst place to have extra weight. This extra reciprocating weight will cause your gun to flip upwards more during its recoil cycle, and force you to take longer to reacquire your dot.

 

On the flipside you have frame mounts, which add to the non-reciprocating weight of the gun, which is helpful to absorbing recoil and staying steady while you shoot. This is the reason you'll see most top Open shooters using steel framed guns with lightened slides; they're minimizing reciprocating weight, and maximizing non-reciprocating weight to help absorb recoil and reduce muzzle flip. They also typically favor front heavy guns with full dust covers and long compensators for similar reasons.

 

That's aside from the obvious advantage of not having your dot rocketing back and forth every shot, and I can't vouch for the Open shooters in your area, but if you were to look at the top 50 shooters each year in the USPSA Nationals, I'd suspect you wouldn't find a single slide mounted dot, which shows there's a general consensus among the pros.

Edited by CompleteJack

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Yeah. Doug Koenig was the first one to tell us to put our dot on a mount. That was when my little brother was shooting the  gun before he stopped shooting at all 5 years ago and I started shooting it a year or two after. But you do have a very good point about were the weight is added on the slide. 

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I have five guns with slide mounted dots.  The oldest is a 1911 45 with 40k plus rounds through it.  I recently finished anothe 1911 45 and mounted the dot directly to the slide in the rear scallop.  My Limited gun gained a slide mounted dot and I use it for Steel Challenge.  I had a slide mounted dot on an Open gun.  All are problem free.

 

I also have two Open guns with frame mounted dots.  It took me forever to get used to them.  My next custom Open gun (soon to be finished, I hope) will wear a slide mounted dot.  When it arrives I'll convert on of the frame mounted guns to slide mount and use it as a backup.

 

To me, there are many more advantages to a slide mounted dot than disadvantages.

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I have 3-SVI's with J.Point slide mounted dots, and I have several with side frame mounts ( i'm a Lefty ) I was told the small glass on the JPoint was a dis-advantage, but I have finally run a match with the Slide mount and found the small glass, forced me to focus more, and dot just 1/4" above the barrel, made re-acquiring the dot quick.  if I could see the barrel at the bottom of the glass, I could find the dot.  I like the side mount for the c-more for the same reason, it gets the dot within 1/2" off the top of the barrel. Seems easier to pick-up having the top of the barrel as your reference. 

 

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I have a slide ride J-Point on my .38 super. Dot moving with the slide was never a problem for me. Stop watching the dot when the gun is cycling. You should be looking at the target at that point.

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On 10/3/2018 at 4:23 PM, zzt said:

To me, there are many more advantages to a slide mounted dot than disadvantages.

As someone who is trying to decide between mounting an optic on my G17MOS slide or on a frame mount for a minor steel gun, what are some of the advantages and disadvantages you have found in your time behind a slide mounted dot? 

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I see no advantages for a slide mounted dot over a frame mounted dot for an open gun. 

Edited by echotango

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I've had both and both worked fine.  Frame mounted is easier to track and better for the application. Slide mounted is only a plus for a gun that you are wanting to use multiple slides or remove the dot and run sights at some point.

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4 hours ago, bulldog009 said:

As someone who is trying to decide between mounting an optic on my G17MOS slide or on a frame mount for a minor steel gun, what are some of the advantages and disadvantages you have found in your time behind a slide mounted dot? 

 

A slide mounted dot is closer to the bore than a frame mounted dot and requires a lot less correction for very close shots, or very far shots.  I shoot mostly 2011s and 1911.  A reflex sight mounted directly to the slide on the rear scallop cut is as low as you can get.  The actual dot is only slightly higher than the top of the slide.  It's point and shoot.  No holding 2" high for 5 yard head shots, or low for 45 yard targets.

 

I've never had a dot fail when slide mounted, and the oldest is past 40,000 rounds.  I also have no trouble tracking them, especially weak handed.  The only disadvantage is you cannot drop the slide in an ultrasonic cleaner without removing the sight.  I only do that once a year, and it's about time to refresh the Loctite anyway.

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To me, nothing is faster or more easy to acquire that a slide mounted sight. That being said, they usually don’t last near as long that way due to the added stress of riding the slide back and forth

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I shot with a slide mounted for for a while and thought it was great. Then I got a 2011 with a frame mounted cmore and man was it night and day. I shot my gun with the slide mounted dot and it’s just tough, definitely not as fast. You want the dot to stay put, not be moving back and forth on the slide. Basically the Same concept for the sight tracker guns with the  front sight on the barrel, it doesn’t really move. I noticed a big difference when going to the frame mount and will do it that will forver now. 

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Lots of great comments.  Agree with most.  If you are a guy that may switch to Limited occasionally ( like me ) the slide mount sight is a truer point and shoot.  I did struggle when I was a new shooter in open with the long range offset!!! do you aim high or Low??? with the slide mount, off set is small enough that you will at least hit if you just aim center.

 

Kris

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Offset? my Cmore is centered and it's so low that I had to file the edge of the glass ring to clear the top of the slide. The most common objection I've heard regarding the 90 degree mount is that it doesn't look good??? Who cares

DSC00599.JPG

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