New guy’s stupid reloading question here....

[JDMahan]

Hey:

Got so excited ordering .38 sp brass, I forgot to answer the op's question.

 

In Bullseye, it's fairly common to buy new brass (usually Starline) at the start of each season, for long line loads (50 yards slowfire) matches.

This then goes in the bucket for shortine (25 yards timed and rapid fire), and then into the practice bin.

These are very light loads, so the brass lasts forever, but the hardcore guys are looking for sub 2" groups at 50yrds.

(Us hackers are happy with 3" groups, so pretty much any brass will do if the gun is sound)

 

This refers to (mostly) .45; that's what all the cool kids shoot.

 

John

Edited September 27, 2018 by JDMahan
Fat fingered typos

[stick]

On 9/26/2018 at 5:08 AM, mmlook said:

normally people buy new unfired brass for consistency.

same reason people mark or save their brass at the range and/or matches that allow it.

you can monitor the number of reloads you put through your brass, and hopefully eliminate the risk of failed case.

How consistent do I need to be for 25 yard shots with 9mm on cardboard?  I'm shooting USPSA and Steel Challenge where the longest shot is usually 25 yards.  9mm is a straight walled case. I clean and visually inspect range brass for splits, cracks and stepped cases. I'll stick to picking it up at matches and spend my money on primers, heads and powder.

[mmlook]

1 minute ago, stick said:

How consistent do I need to be for 25 yard shots with 9mm on cardboard?  I'm shooting USPSA and Steel Challenge where the longest shot is usually 25 yards.  9mm is a straight walled case. I clean and visually inspect range brass for splits, cracks and stepped cases. I'll stick to picking it up at matches and spend my money on primers, heads and powder.

minor or major?
how tight is your chamber?

buying new brass is not about cost.
more about gaining every little advantage.
 

[stick]

1 minute ago, mmlook said:

how tight is your chamber?



 

That sounds like a personal question.  All joking aside.  Minor PF

[kneelingatlas]

1 hour ago, mmlook said:

buying new brass is not about cost.
more about gaining every little advantage.
 

 

I think bullet selection has more to do with accuracy than brass, which bullets are you using?

[perttime]

41 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

I think bullet selection has more to do with accuracy than brass, which bullets are you using?

 

Yes - But. If you are trying to get every little bit of accuracy, you get the ideal brass too, whatever the cost. For my current needs, brass picked from the range is quite adequate.

[mmlook]

19 hours ago, stick said:

That sounds like a personal question.  All joking aside.  Minor PF

 

won't make a difference, unless you are running a super custom hand fit CZ

people I know buying new brass are in limited and open, running super tight chambers, to get the best accuracy and monitor their brass to get the best reliability.


 

[stick]

3 hours ago, mmlook said:

 

won't make a difference, unless you are running a super custom hand fit CZ

people I know buying new brass are in limited and open, running super tight chambers, to get the best accuracy and monitor their brass to get the best reliability.


 

How much more accurate is new brass over my range picked brass?  We are both shooting the same stages from roughly the same positions.  The "A" zone is the "A" zone.  We're shooting USPSA and steel challenge with shots out to 35 yards, we're not shooting precision rifle.  The cost to benefit ratio for new brass is not worth it in my opinion.

[zzt]

For competitions other than bullseye, I don't think new brass is of any significant benefit.  I buy cleaned, once-fired range brass for all my 40sws.  Except for practice where I have a brass catcher, I shoot them once and leave them.  My CZ TS Limited pistol would put 10 rounds into the same bullet hole at 15 yards.  Why would i need better accuracy than that for USPSA or Steel Challenge?  I also shoot it in pin matches.

 

Bullseye may be a different story.  I have several friends who are really, really good.  They only use Starline brass and either Zero 185 SWCHP or Nosler 185 JHP bullets for the long line.  They do reuse their Starline brass.

 

I sprung for 6000 once-fired RP headstamp brass, because the same headstamp does make an itty bitty difference.  I'm still on my first 2000 cases.  They have been reloaded 14 times so far.  I haven't seen any loss of accuracy vis-a-vis the original batch.  My 172PF major loads shoot almost as accurately.  They all go into one very small hole at 15 yards.  I attribute the slight loss of accuracy to the use of a non-match grade bullet, not the mixed HS brass I use for competition loads.

[mmlook]

17 hours ago, stick said:

How much more accurate is new brass over my range picked brass?  We are both shooting the same stages from roughly the same positions.  The "A" zone is the "A" zone.  We're shooting USPSA and steel challenge with shots out to 35 yards, we're not shooting precision rifle.  The cost to benefit ratio for new brass is not worth it in my opinion.

lol, cost to benefit ratio?

try comparing a custom 2011 to a CZ, or a glock for that matter.

at the end of the day, an advantage is an advantage.

what it's worth will vary by person.

 

[stick]

4 hours ago, mmlook said:

lol, cost to benefit ratio?

try comparing a custom 2011 to a CZ, or a glock for that matter.

at the end of the day, an advantage is an advantage.

what it's worth will vary by person.

 

Your reasoning is sound.  You're totally correct. The worth will vary by person.

[doc88]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:42 PM, SnowinOnRaton said:

I’m just getting into reloading. My wife and I shoot mostly 9mm, and to a lesser degree some .223. We try to hit the range once a week and put about 250-300 rounds each down range. That’s been getting pretty expensive for our budget so we’ve decided to get into reloading to get more shooting in for our buck. We knew this was coming so we’ve been saving our brass for a while now and man am I glad we did! Out of curiosity I started looking at what new unfired brass costs and I cannot for the life of me, understand why anyone would purchase new brass. Seriously, why does it cost the same or more as factory loaded ammo?! A few online searches for unfired 9mm brass seems to average $.17-$.19 per 1000. I can buy white box Winchester, Magtech, Fiocchi, and Blazer 9mm for that price all day every day. It doesn’t make any sense to my newbie reloader brain so will someone please humor my stupid question and explain to me why the hell unfired brass is the same or more as factory ammo? 

That seems a little pricey even for new 9mm brass. At any rate unless shooting 9 major in an open gun  I don't see the need for anything but the cheapest 9mm brass you can find. I've loaded some very accurate rounds with the right bullet and powder out of some ugly brass provided the brass is not cracked of course.

[kneelingatlas]

24 minutes ago, doc88 said:

That seems a little pricey even for new 9mm brass. At any rate unless shooting 9 major in an open gun  I don't see the need for anything but the cheapest 9mm brass you can find. I've loaded some very accurate rounds with the right bullet and powder out of some ugly brass provided the brass is not cracked of course.

 

Foget your "unless shooting 9 major" qualifier! I've been loading 9 major in range pick-up for six years and my only case failure has been with stepped cases in one particular gun.  I've even loaded 9 major rounds in aluminum cases without issue.

 

Just keep in mind not all 9 major is created equal in terms of pressure; bullet weight, OAL, and powder choices can create loads of the same PF with wildly different chamber pressures.

[ExStreetWalker]

On 9/27/2018 at 4:40 AM, stick said:

How consistent do I need to be for 25 yard shots with 9mm on cardboard?  I'm shooting USPSA and Steel Challenge where the longest shot is usually 25 yards.  9mm is a straight walled case. I clean and visually inspect range brass for splits, cracks and stepped cases. I'll stick to picking it up at matches and spend my money on primers, heads and powder.

 

9mm is not a straight walled case.  It has quite a bit of taper to it.

[stick]

46 minutes ago, ExStreetWalker said:

 

9mm is not a straight walled case.  It has quite a bit of taper to it.

You are correct sir.  I stand Corrected.

9mm/parabellum and any derivatives are not actually “straight wall” cartridges. They are actually TAPERED, which aids in extraction in recoil operated submachineguns.

A 9mm chamber is reamed with a 13/32 (10.3mm) 1 in 50 tapered pin reamer. The OD at the mouth of the case is 9.65mm but at the extractor groove it is 9.93mm.

[JDMahan]

One other reason to buy new brass:

Some moonclips work best (or only work) with certain headstamp.

If/when you get into revolvers for competition, you want a good supply of the headstamp(s) that function with your moonclip/gun combo

 

John

[doc88]

20 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

Foget your "unless shooting 9 major" qualifier! I've been loading 9 major in range pick-up for six years and my only case failure has been with stepped cases in one particular gun.  I've even loaded 9 major rounds in aluminum cases without issue.

 

Just keep in mind not all 9 major is created equal in terms of pressure; bullet weight, OAL, and powder choices can create loads of the same PF with wildly different chamber pressures.

Cool. That's good to know. If ever get into a 9 Open gun I want have to ditch my two 5 gallon buckets of 9mm brass. I was always under the assumption that the pressure in 9 major was too high for several times fired used brass. At any rate, thanks for the heads up.

Edited September 30, 2018 by doc88

[Hi-Power Jack]

Two schools of thought on this, but many BE members report (me also)

that we use range brass for our 9mm Major, and keep using it until it

splits or the primers won't stay in.     

[kneelingatlas]

7 hours ago, doc88 said:

Cool. That's good to know. If ever get into a 9 Open gun I want have to ditch my two 5 gallon buckets of 9mm brass. I was always under the assumption that the pressure in 9 major was too high for several times fired used brass. At any rate, thanks for the heads up.

 

Check out this thread for more discussion on 9 major: 

 

[mmlook]

19 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Two schools of thought on this, but many BE members report (me also)

that we use range brass for our 9mm Major, and keep using it until it

splits or the primers won't stay in.     

Used brass can/should be just as good as new.

if you sort, and basically make a matched set.

To me, that's pretty much what you are paying for with new brass.
consistent(should all be from the same manufacturing batch):
- weight
- length
- case volume
- rim
- raw material

if you do the same with your bullets, primers, powder, and reloading setup,
in theory, you should be able to push the PF limits and tighten your standard deviations.

It's kind of like applying the precision rifle loading approach for pistols

[doc88]

This is all real good to know. Thanks guys for your input.