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tyman1876

Forcing you to stay inside FFZ

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Being very had of hearing, I have enough trouble understanding the COF without

having arbitrary, oral regulations.

 

I would have wandered through the "forbidden zone" without a care or an understanding

that it was "forbidden", in all likelihood.     :eatdrink:

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8 hours ago, tyman1876 said:

 


Thanks I was hoping that you or someone else that was there would chime in. I’ve only shot there once before and didn’t want to cause waves by saying something but I also didn’t think it was right. Glad I wasn’t alone.

 

It was my first time, as well. To be honest, hearing about this kind of thing in the past has not made it a high priority for me to head out that way but they had the Sectional match this year so is what it is.

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This just reinforces in my mind the theory I have that the more a stage designer or md wants to force you to do something the less appealing their stage or match. The frequency a person has the thought of "I want them to do this" or "This will really screw 'em" and has to coerce it through an overly written description or extra verbal clarification is inversely proportional to how much I want to come back again.

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10 hours ago, rowdyb said:

This just reinforces in my mind the theory I have that the more a stage designer or md wants to force you to do something the less appealing their stage or match. The frequency a person has the thought of "I want them to do this" or "This will really screw 'em" and has to coerce it through an overly written description or extra verbal clarification is inversely proportional to how much I want to come back again.

 

Thank you ! If the designer really thinks an action like this is necessary, he can follow the rules and properly identify an off limits area and include it in the WSB as required. It's really concerning that so many people display no knowledge of the rule book. I've read three items on the forums this morning that are clearly covered by the rules and damn few people realize that. WTF do they do in schools now. Not reading for sure.

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19 hours ago, bockerSV said:

It was my first time, as well. To be honest, hearing about this kind of thing in the past has not made it a high priority for me to head out that way but they had the Sectional match this year so is what it is.

 

If this was indeed a Section match, it could not be run under Level I rules (see App A1).

Even Level I rules do not allow for such a restriction.

Was there an assigned Range Master whose job  it is to run the match in accordance with the rules?

 

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Thank you ! If the designer really thinks an action like this is necessary, he can follow the rules and properly identify an off limits area and include it in the WSB as required. It's really concerning that so many people display no knowledge of the rule book. I've read three items on the forums this morning that are clearly covered by the rules and damn few people realize that. WTF do they do in schools now. Not reading for sure.
There's pretty much always a way to build a stage to prevent people from going to certain areas if you want. You just need to not be lazy in your design/building.

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On 9/24/2018 at 10:38 AM, ChuckS said:

Actually, I have yet to find anything in the rules that allows control of shooter movement by FA for a level 1 match. 1.1.5.1 says nothing about movement.

 

2.3.1.1  b. The declaration of a Forbidden Action cannot be used as a
means of compelling or limiting competitor movement within
a course of fire (e.g., to prevent a shooter from “cutting the
corner” on an L-shaped shooting area). Except as provided in
Rule 1.1.5.1, a course designer wishing to compel or limit
competitor movement must do so using target placement,
vision barriers, physical barriers, or off -limits lines.

 

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes, specify where or
when specific target arrays may be engaged and specify
mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only. Long
courses are exclusively governed by 1.1.5.

 

This. Entirely illegal stage design/WSB. 

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On 9/25/2018 at 3:49 PM, rowdyb said:

This just reinforces in my mind the theory I have that the more a stage designer or md wants to force you to do something the less appealing their stage or match. The frequency a person has the thought of "I want them to do this" or "This will really screw 'em" and has to coerce it through an overly written description or extra verbal clarification is inversely proportional to how much I want to come back again.

 

Fully agree.

 

If a stage designer is too dim to figure out how to position targets in a way that makes looping outside the shooting area slower, rather than faster... I probably don’t want to shoot his stages anyway.

 

Or hell, just put some barrels or a wall in the place that makes sense to cut through, and skip threatening shooters if they do what the book says they can.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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Proofing stages & placing barrels, moving targets, changing a fast easy target to a tricky head shot and similar tricks to eliminate r.o. traps or shooter trip hazards is actually kind of fun and usually easy. 

 

Seems like something that that could be worked out to everyone's liking. 

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This just reinforces in my mind the theory I have that the more a stage designer or md wants to force you to do something the less appealing their stage or match. The frequency a person has the thought of "I want them to do this" or "This will really screw 'em" and has to coerce it through an overly written description or extra verbal clarification is inversely proportional to how much I want to come back again.
Isn't that what IDPA does?

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There's a difference between being given a script to follow, knowing it ahead of time and as acknowledged as consistent with the norms and rules.

 

What was described by the OP is not within the rules or norms. So I would be uninterested. 

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24 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

What was described by the OP is not within the rules or norms. So I would be uninterested. 

 

Same here. I’d head to other matches for certain.

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And stop using the term "free fire zone". ? Even if that is your local colloquialism.

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And stop using the term "free fire zone".  Even if that is your local colloquialism.


Honestly I didn’t know that term was incorrect. That’s how I’ve seen it written on stage briefs..

What phrase should I be using then?

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It’s the ‘shooting area’

 

Or ‘from within the fault lines’

 

I’ve never seen “free fire zone” before this thread. That’s an oddity your locals are using.

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I think why it's frowned upon most places is because it is a militaristic term and while IPSC then USPSA were initially much more martial it is now far more sport oriented.

 

The term is pretty much accurate in that it is an area you have very few restrictions on what you do, and  many terms used on a military range that many are familiar with and could work just fine in what we do.  But....I wouldn't use it because it's not common across the nation, it presupposes a background that understands military terms and finally it's also been used as a term for engagement where the normal ROE don't apply.

 

It's something I'd expect to hear at airsoft, not uspsa.

Edited by rowdyb

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On 10/12/2018 at 8:58 AM, rowdyb said:

I think why it's frowned upon most places is because it is a militaristic term and while IPSC then USPSA were initially much more martial it is now far more sport oriented.

 

I think this depends more on your background, perspective, and maybe your self image than anything else.  Having been in the military and law enforcement, I don't seem to be bothered by the use of military terms or that we play games with weapons.  Having said that, I don't think I have ever heard of the "shooting area" being described as a "free fire zone".

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It’s the ‘shooting area’
 
Or ‘from within the fault lines’
 
I’ve never seen “free fire zone” before this thread. That’s an oddity your locals are using.
I'd never heard in uspsa prior to this.

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I think this may be the next "clip/magazine" debate hahahahahhahaha

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I think this may be the next "clip/magazine" debate hahahahahhahaha
You might be right. I'm going to stick in our WSBs one month just to screw with people.

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[mention=56049]robchavous[/mention] Engage the targets as they become visible from within the “region of tactical domination.”
ROFL

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I seem to remember the term - Free Fire Zone - from back in the 80s.  Not everywhere, but a reasonable number of matches.

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