mwray Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Guy steps up with rifle, told to MR, gets the beep attempts to fire first shot, gun fires, mag drops to the ground, for the next minute he safely fights his gun in hopes of getting back in action, funnily he gives up, clears gun, RIC, away to the safe table he goes, comes back with 2 slugs he knocked out of the barrel. Yes he showed up to a match with a squib already in the gun. I had no indication that he had a squib on his shot or he would’ve been stopped. Stage was scored as shot. I told the RM he would probably be asking for a reshoot at some point during the day. Should he have gotten a RS since he never really engaged a single target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 No per 5.7.4 and 5.7.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Some people recently have carried bolts on their belt for PCC... and one person even mentioned a squib rod and a hammer....Whatcha think George? It wouldn’t be worth the score but someone will do it or need to do it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 It's not against the rules. The potential for a safety violation during that entertaining process possibly increases a bit. I do have to wonder if all that pre-planning energy might not be better directed elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 What would be his basis for a re-shoot? He should not be granted a re-shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Some people recently have carried bolts on their belt for PCC... and one person even mentioned a squib rod and a hammer....Whatcha think George? It wouldn’t be worth the score but someone will do it or need to do it.... I actually had a guy come through Saturday with a spare BCG on his belt. It kinda had me wondering at first, then I learned about how bad those things eat firing pins. I don’t see how one could get a squib rod in the barrel without sweeping themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 What would be his basis for a re-shoot? He should not be granted a re-shoot.He didn’t get one, but he was thinking since he did not engage a single target that maybe he could get one. Never hurts to ask, no is the worst answer you can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, mwray said: I don’t see how one could get a squib rod in the barrel without sweeping themselves This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 ThisOn a PCC?Sure muzzle on the ground... break it open... pull the BCG.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, RadarTech said: On a PCC? Sure muzzle on the ground... break it open... pull the BCG.. Still tricky getting a rod down the barrel from the muzzle without sweeping yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, RadarTech said: On a PCC? Sure muzzle on the ground... break it open... pull the BCG.. Um...it would seem I wouldn’t even know where to begin this conversation with you. Are you implying you would bang a squib 15 inches down a 16 inch barrel? And you think you can do that in the time allowed a competitor to clear a malfunction too? I like typing, but someone else is going to have to jump in here and help with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Um...it would seem I wouldn’t even know where to begin this conversation with you. Are you implying you would bang a squib 15 inches down a 16 inch barrel? And you think you can do that in the time allowed a competitor to clear a malfunction too? I like typing, but someone else is going to have to jump in here and help with this one.“Most” squibs are caused from no powder at all in the case, and the bullet it lodged in just the throat of the chamber. They usually prevent the next round from being chambered anyways. It’s really hard to spot a squib in a PCC because of the blow back system they operate on. You get a solid sound out of the chamber either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Still tricky getting a rod down the barrel from the muzzle without sweeping yourselfThat was what I was talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Sarge said: Still tricky getting a rod down the barrel from the muzzle without sweeping yourself Needs a pair of pliers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 5 hours ago, mwray said: “Most” squibs are caused from no powder at all in the case, and the bullet it lodged in just the throat of the chamber. They usually prevent the next round from being chambered anyways. It’s really hard to spot a squib in a PCC because of the blow back system they operate on. You get a solid sound out of the chamber either way. Right. I was responding to the idea of breaking down the rifle and removing the bolt - all of which completely unnecessary for the reasons you describe here, and furthers the point of it being difficult to remove while on the timer in a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudreaux78 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Don’t know if this matters in this discussion, but if it’s a multigun match, I e seen competitors quit completely when a gun breaks. Nothing says you can’t finish the course of fire with the other guns, if you haven’t already shot them. Just something to keep in your bag o tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robchavous Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 He aimed at a target and fired. That's engaging. If he didn't have a bullet in the barrel and his first shot would have been a squib he wouldn't have gotten a reshoot. Reshoots are only issued if the RO stops the shooter for a suspected squib and there isn't one. If there is a squib it's scored as is.Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 He aimed at a target and fired. That's engaging. If he didn't have a bullet in the barrel and his first shot would have been a squib he wouldn't have gotten a reshoot. Reshoots are only issued if the RO stops the shooter for a suspected squib and there isn't one. If there is a squib it's scored as is.Sent from my SM-G930V using TapatalkThe bullet has to pass through the barrel to be considered engaging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robchavous Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 The bullet has to pass through the barrel to be considered engagingI stand corrected as the rule is techincially "failure to shoot at" and not "engage" and "shot" is defined in the glossary. It still stands that there is no rule to support a reshoot. At that point I guess it just falls under a broken gun and would still be scored as is. The competitor was ready and began the stage. It's his fault he didn't check his equipment.Also if this scenario was from Tennessee this weekend I was on the squad where it happened.Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, mwray said: The bullet has to pass through the barrel to be considered engaging We were just talking about this in another thread. There is no "failure to engage" penalty in USPSA. There is, however, "Failure to Shoot At" (10.2.7). Shot is defined in Appendix A3 as the following: Shot ..................................A bullet which passes completely through the barrel of a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, robchavous said: He aimed at a target and fired. That's engaging. If he didn't have a bullet in the barrel and his first shot would have been a squib he wouldn't have gotten a reshoot. Reshoots are only issued if the RO stops the shooter for a suspected squib and there isn't one. If there is a squib it's scored as is. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Engaging it has nothing to do with it. If you react to the start signal, you get a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, waktasz said: Engaging it has nothing to do with it. If you react to the start signal, you get a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 A double squib. Is there a rule against serial carelessness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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