Thinking about a 2011/1911 from a Glock

[vgdvc]

10 hours ago, hamiltonian said:

I was using 180 g jacketed bullets and 5.x g of Clays loaded to 1.230 using WSR primers.  We used extra long firing pins also to help reduce primer flow from what I was told from the gunsmith.  I never had any breech face erosion.  My barrel was prepped to run these with no problems; however, my brother had a Para and he tried these loads without prepping the barrel and had a case head blow.  Good thing it was an all steel gun as it blew out the magazine but no permanent injury to the gun or my brother.  

Thanks for the response. And that made 182 PF? Do you know how much freebore there was before the projectile touched the lands in the rifling? 168pf or so for today's major would be easier to obtain but sounds like everything has to be just right or there could be real problems. As I mentioned before Clays is such a soft shooting powder and makes you want to chase after it for higher power factors but consequences can be pretty bad if you get it wrong.

[Jfitz427]

New development this morning. I just started full length sizing my 40 brass, and I’m guessing my springs have finally worn in a bit. But I can get 21 rounds in my sti mags with grams guts and Dawson SNL basepads. And I can lock the mag into the gun without a crazy amount of force. So I can start now with 21 plus one in the chamber. 

 

I tried this in my mbx also and couldn’t do it, I can get the 21st round in the mag, but I can’t lock it in the gun. It’s surprising because the mbx follower is super low profile. It’s really thin, whereas the grams follower is pretty thick, about as thick as half a 40 round. So you’d think it would be the other way around, 21 in the mbx and 20 with the sti. But I guess the SNL gives a bit extra room. I’m gonna try putting the low pro mbx follower into my sti mags and see if I get a easily reloadable 21rds. 

[Jfitz427]

Ya, so by putting the mbx guts with the low pro follower into my sti tube with SNl basepad  I can get 21rds reloadable. My mags with grams guts are ultra reliable though, so I’m gonna leave them as is. But im thinking the TTI ultra low pro follower will be much like the mbx in allowing extra room. I have some tti followers and springs coming. I think I’m gonna buy another tube and basepad to have a designated 21rd mag. 

[hamiltonian]

15 hours ago, vgdvc said:

Thanks for the response. And that made 182 PF? Do you know how much freebore there was before the projectile touched the lands in the rifling? 168pf or so for today's major would be easier to obtain but sounds like everything has to be just right or there could be real problems. As I mentioned before Clays is such a soft shooting powder and makes you want to chase after it for higher power factors but consequences can be pretty bad if you get it wrong.

The load I use now is 4.8 g Clays under a 180g jacketed bullet loaded to 1.220; that makes 170 PF.  I do not know the freebore length but the barrel will pass the plunk test at 1.250 so it is over 0.030.

[Jfitz427]

7 hours ago, hamiltonian said:

The load I use now is 4.8 g Clays under a 180g jacketed bullet loaded to 1.220; that makes 170 PF.  I do not know the freebore length but the barrel will pass the plunk test at 1.250 so it is over 0.030.

That’s interesting. 4.3 gives me 173pf. Dropped down to 4.2 for 170pf. I’m loading them at 1.205. I love the load though. Titegroup feels so snappy now after shooting clays. 

[shootmove]

I started shooting open (minor) with a G17 + KKM Comp + KKM barrel + Overwatch trigger + Deltapoint pro. On the mag side, I started with the Dawson basepads plus factory mags -- then I went to Mapgul 21s, and I prefer those. Said G17 is really an amazing gun. I then "upgrdaded" to an Atlas Chaos in 38 super comp. While the Atlas has an *amazing* trigger, I just find the magazine system too finicky. The G17 system, albeit minor, is also more reliable and you can drop the magazines without fear. I would consider a non-2011 platform like the CZ Checkmate (and that's what I am doing as well )

Edited December 10, 2018 by shootmove
grammar

[Jfitz427]

7 hours ago, shootmove said:

I started shooting open (minor) with a G17 + KKM Comp + KKM barrel + Overwatch trigger + Deltapoint pro. On the mag side, I started with the Dawson basepads plus factory mags -- then I went to Mapgul 21s, and I prefer those. Said G17 is really an amazing gun. I then "upgrdaded" to an Atlas Chaos in 38 super comp. While the Atlas has an *amazing* trigger, I just find the magazine system too finicky. The G17 system, albeit minor, is also more reliable and you can drop the magazines without fear. I would consider a non-2011 platform like the CZ Checkmate (and that's what I am doing as well )

You know reliability and being finicky was something I was worried about too when moving to the 2011s from my ultra reliable glocks. Especially with mags and “tuning”. But man my stuff just runs. My SPS 40 runs just as well as my Glock. Now if I started dropping it in the sand maybe that would change. But I keep my guns clean and lubed. Though 3000rds the SPS has never failed. And the mags have been great too. Sti, mbx and sps mags all perfect. I drop them in the dirt, mud. They run. Then the Dawson tooless basepad s make it simple to clean after a range trip. 

 

And thwt amazing trigger on these style guns is just awesome. Crisp 2lb break, no pre or over travel. 

 

Ive recently started learning how to work on them too. That’s something I was worried about. I can do anything to a Glock, troubleshoot any problem. I was worried as these guns are much more complicated and everything needs to be fitted. So far I’ve learned how to take down everything in the slide and know how to tune extractors, but haven’t needed to do it yet. I’ve taken the whole frame down to nothing and learned how each of the parts work together. Been watching videos on how to fit the thumb safety’s As I’m gonna drop in a new trigger group from Brazos soon. So I’m not that worried anymore. I’m rebuilding my open gun winter so that should give me a good feel for everything. I do miss the simplicity of glocks though. 

[blasterboy]

I'm a lefty who started in standard back in 1995 with a Glock 21. 4 years ago switched to a STI edge in .40. wished I had done it sooner. I'm now out of shape, my eyes aren't quite what they used to be. I think the equipment improvement helps me keep doing what I used to be able to do because of foot speed and practice. About a lefty mag release, I don't think I want one after all these years.

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[Jfitz427]

24 minutes ago, blasterboy said:

I'm a lefty who started in standard back in 1995 with a Glock 21. 4 years ago switched to a STI edge in .40. wished I had done it sooner. I'm now out of shape, my eyes aren't quite what they used to be. I think the equipment improvement helps me keep doing what I used to be able to do because of foot speed and practice. About a lefty mag release, I don't think I want one after all these years.

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Ya I’m actually fine with the mag release being left on the normal left side of the gun. After all these years I’m used to it. Apparently a lot of righty shooters switch theirs to the opposite side of the gun, So to use it the same way we do with our trigger or middle finger. I put an extended mag release on my Pantera and it’s super easy to get to. 

[Jfitz427]

3 hours ago, blasterboy said:

I'm a lefty who started in standard back in 1995 with a Glock 21. 4 years ago switched to a STI edge in .40. wished I had done it sooner. I'm now out of shape, my eyes aren't quite what they used to be. I think the equipment improvement helps me keep doing what I used to be able to do because of foot speed and practice. About a lefty mag release, I don't think I want one after all these years.

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I’m also very happy going to the 2011 from the Glock. The best part is my sps runs like a Swiss watch. Plus that crisp 2lb trigger, the grip angle makes the gun point more naturally. I love it. I’m still a big fan of glocks though, nothing beats it for self defense. CCW, home defense, military, law enforcement, the Glock rules. The light polymer frame helps a lot carrying it around all day. And the generous tolerances enable it to run in even the roughest conditions. But for competition, or just range fun, nothing beats a 2011 or 1911. 

[Jfitz427]

So I put together another 40 mag with the TTI ultra thin follower to see if I could get an easy 21rds, and it worked. When I first assembled the mag and loaded it up I lost count by one round, and I thought I was forcing in the 21st round. I couldn’t quite get it, it was really close. Then I unloaded the magazine and counted and I actually had 21 in the mag and I was trying to force in the 22nd. 

 

So 21 rounds is easy. Can easily start with 21+1. I could even reload to 21.  Gonna load it up for a week and let the springs set in. I’ve only cycled them though the gun by hand, but it functions fine that way. And stripping the rounds out one at a time the next one comes up angled up correctly. So i think it’s gonna run fine. I’m leaving my others with grams guts and follower since they are just ultra reliable. This mag will be starts only. Or other times I see fit. 

 

Then i I been working on getting the capacity of the 126mm mags up. They started at 16 rounds. I added the Dawson baseplates that fit the ipsc box, and sti springs and follower I took out of another mag. Like this they held 17, and were 100% reliable. Then I added TTI springs and the ultra thin +1 follower and now they hold 18+1. I just use these for practice, dropping them over and over again and not having to worry. 

 

 

[Jfitz427]

I’ve been slowly changing parts out. Just little things. I put a Dawson extended mag release in it. I read about one guy with an sps breaking an ejector due to overinsertion so I don’t want that to happen. I also put a Dawson firing pin, and I have a Dawson tooless guide rod that should be here today with an 12lb wolf variable spring. No problems with any of the stock stuff, but I’d rather put some high quality parts in it. 

 

I just dropped in a Brazos pro series itrigger group into my open gun I’m rebuilding this winter. It was super easy no fitting required and gave about a 1.5lb pull, super crisp. Either when the factory stuff in the Pantera breaks, or I have an extra 150 bucks laying around I’m gonna put one in this gun too. This gun already has a sweet trigger, and if it lasts forever I’d totally keep it. It shows no signs of letting up yet. But being that they are mim parts, I’d rather replace them with high quality parts so I don’t have to worry about something breaking at a big match which’ is definitely when they’d fail. They wouldn’t break at a convienent time like dry fire or even live fire practice session. Only when it really matters. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Jfitz427

[hamiltonian]

5 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

I just dropped in a Brazos pro series itrigger group into my open gun I’m rebuilding this winter. It was super easy no fitting required and gave about a 1.5lb pull, super crisp.

You got a 1.5 lb crisp trigger pull with a drop-in unit?  I am jealous!

[Jfitz427]

14 hours ago, hamiltonian said:

You got a 1.5 lb crisp trigger pull with a drop-in unit?  I am jealous!

Ya man, the Brazos trigger is really nice. Apparently he puts each trigger group he sells into a gun first and tunes it. So the sear spring is bent right, he cuts the angles on the sear and hammer. The only thing some people have to fit is the safety, which I didn’t even have to do. I’d buy another one of these in a heart beat. And I will be probably before it gets warm out for my sps. 

[Jfitz427]

Been off work the last few days so I got to really put the pantera though it’s paces. 3 days in a row, 400 rounds a day, no cleaning or lubing besides what I did before day one and she just ran and ran. Shot a lot of Clays, so the gun wasn’t even that dirty after 3 days and 1200rds. I usually shoot titegroup, so even after 200-300 the guns pretty filthy. Not a single malfunction. The new 21rd mag worked perfect too. Probably ran 15-20 full mags and didn’t have any problems. The feed lips on the 40 mags a are bit wider then the follower, so it sticks out a bit. But it works fine. 

 

Coming up on the 5k mark pretty soon. Don’t see much changing soon. I’m more interested in how it does at 10k. As sps confirmed the internals are Mim. But I’ve Ben doing quite a bit of reading on modern MIM parts and according to bill wilson thru should last forever. Apparently Wilson. Combat uses them in their production gun. And quality modern mim parts are extremely durable, and can last 10s of thousands of rounds. So I guess I probably won’t touch the  trigger group. But I do want to bend the sear spring a bit to bring the trigger down a bit. Currently it’s around 2.5lbs. Like to get it around 2. The trigger in my open  gun Is around 1.5, so I’d like to get them closer.     

 

Mods: is there anyway we could change the thread title to Sps pantera review? That’s what this has become. And there really isn’t much info out there about these guns, and how they hold up over time. This could be a good reference. There wasn’t really one when I bought mine. 

 

[blasterboy]

Clays, funny nobody warned you yet. [emoji39] I ran a bit of a torture test last year with my sti edge. At 2000 rounds with same powder the slide was running noticably slow, brass landing at my feet. Shortly after, failure to eject. Quick rail cleaning and lube got me through my practice session.

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[Jfitz427]

On 12/29/2018 at 7:35 AM, blasterboy said:

Clays, funny nobody warned you yet. I ran a bit of a torture test last year with my sti edge. At 2000 rounds with same powder the slide was running noticably slow, brass landing at my feet. Shortly after, failure to eject. Quick rail cleaning and lube got me through my practice session.

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Oh no they warned me. I’m regulating the clays major loads strictly for matches, with titegroup for practice. My major load is 4.3g, which is around 950fps, so sometimes I’ll practice with clays minor, With the load making about 155pf. Recoil impulse is similar. And it’s safe, it’s actially a published book load. I still keep the oal the same 1.205, and load with the same caution as when I’m loading major. Clays is definitely the softest stuff you can find. 

 

Althoigh after changing to the 12lb Wolff variable recoil spring, I kinda like the way titegroup tracks. I only have a tiny bit of clays left, will see if I buy more. It’s good stuff though. 

 

Pretty soon my wife and I are moving into a new house on 15 acres, with perfect land for a  gun range. So I’ll be shooting almost everyday. I’ll put it though a indefinite torture test then, or atleast until a match comes up and I have to clean it. I’d love to see how long it goes. I couldn’t do it now since I only get out 1-2 times a week and one is usually a match. 

[Bmeehan19]

Did you ever check to see if your feed lips or top round hit your ejector when you insert?  I just picked up an SPS and a gen 1 sti mag just hits the ejector. A loaded round in mag hits it too. 

[Jfitz427]

1 hour ago, Bmeehan19 said:

Did you ever check to see if your feed lips or top round hit your ejector when you insert?  I just picked up an SPS and a gen 1 sti mag just hits the ejector. A loaded round in mag hits it too. 

Naa, I didn’t have that problem. Loaded round sits right below it, as do the feed lips, but don’t touch.  I read about someone breaking their ejector because of overinsertion in an sps Pantera. So I recently put in a Dawson  mag release to avoid that. They specially say in the description it prevents this. But I used the factory one for about 3000rds without issue. It probably wasn’t necessary, but for 40 bucks it’s worth the extra precaution. 

 

Sti gen 1 mags may be slightly different? I only have gen 2 mags, mbx and then the sps that came with it. No problems with any of them. 

[Bmeehan19]

16 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

Naa, I didn’t have that problem. Loaded round sits right below it, as do the feed lips, but don’t touch.  I read about someone breaking their ejector because of overinsertion in an sps Pantera. So I recently put in a Dawson  mag release to avoid that. They specially say in the description it prevents this. But I used the factory one for about 3000rds without issue. It probably wasn’t necessary, but for 40 bucks it’s worth the extra precaution. 

 

Sti gen 1 mags may be slightly different? I only have gen 2 mags, mbx and then the sps that came with it. No problems with any of them. 

Yeah. Could be the mags. I may try to contour the ejector a bit to allow clearance for the round. I think the feed lip just barely touches it. It appears the mags have a decent amount of play front to back too. 

[Jfitz427]

24 minutes ago, Bmeehan19 said:

Yeah. Could be the mags. I may try to contour the ejector a bit to allow clearance for the round. I think the feed lip just barely touches it. It appears the mags have a decent amount of play front to back too. 

Ya, I would bet it’s the mags. Before I bought this I read all the horror stories about mags, and then I read about the new gen 2 mags that run out of the box with no tuning needed, and MBX and i skipped right over the original sti mags. Getting the mags in spec is actually pretty easy though, so wouldn’t be to worried about the original ones anymore. But I have no need for then now. Idk what to say about the the ejector thing though. I’d try buying just one new gen 2 mag and see if you have the same problem or not, if you don’t you know it’s the mag. 

[Bmeehan19]

Guess it is actually a gen 2 mag. Do yours have significant play when loaded into the gun? Both front to back and side to side?

[Bmeehan19]

So I tried to copy the brazos ejector. Its not pretty. Do you guys think it will be fine?  I made sure to round the corners and edges too. All pics are taken with pressure pushing up the mag

[Jfitz427]

Heres some pics of mine with 3 different mags, first pic Is gen 2 Sti, second pic mbx

ans the last is the Sps mags. All pushing up like you. Mine sit quite a bit lower then yours. I have a Dawson mag release in mine, so idk if that prevents it from touching. I can’t remember how it was with the stock one. 

 

[Jfitz427]

And he’s some pics of it with a round in the mag. Again it doesn’t come close to touching. Definitely looks a bit different then yours. I’d pick up a Dawson catch.