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SweetToof

Own a Hornady LNL progressive, how good is a 650?

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So the topic has been mostly beat to death, but I haven't found any info from someone who has used BOTH a Hornady LNL progressive and a Dillon 650.

 

I load 9mm and 45 ACP for pistol competitions, and soon to get into .223 rifle loading. 

 

The LNL works great for me. Despite what people have written, it took minimal tinkering to set up. I use a deprime/size die, case flaring die, powder drop, powder COP die, and bullet seater/crimper. With this setup I can do about 400 rounds/hour and I am about to rig up a home made case feeder that should almost half that time. Using a Lee case collator that costs $30 instead of Hornady's $300 case feeder.

 

So I get that Dillon makes a "higher quality" machine, but my ammo is pretty good right now, and that's the end goal. My hand load 9mm has a standard velocity deviation of about 1-1.5% same for 45. I don't ever have hang-ups and never detonated a primer. 

 

If I had a good reason to, I'd sell the Hornady and get a 650. After all, I'm shooting thousands of $ a year in ammo and matches, spending a little on improving my speed of production would be no big deal.

 

So long story short, should I believe the hype? 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SweetToof

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Have a LNL with casefeeder
Save yourself a big headache if you plan on using Hornady casefeeder parts to drop and insert brass.
Sell the LNL it is a good press.
But the bottom of the casefeeder blows chunks I M O



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I’ve never seen a lock n load, but a buddy that swears by his watched me load ammo on my 650, and told me his press won’t do that 

i can load 100 rounds in around 5 minutes, 800 rounds an hour is fairly easy

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I have and use both. I run a thru die bullet feeder on my lnl instead of a case feeder because it’s much easier to get the cheap bullet feeder setup on the lnl than it is the case feeder.  The diy casefeeder will be more of a headache to make run consistently and it’s all the same from a time standpoint if you cut out one hand operation from the equation it doesn’t matter whether it’s the case or bullet.  Also, the shellplate on the hornady makes it super easy to slip a case in on the left and is faster than setting Bullets for me.

 

that being said if I had to sell one, I’d sell the lnl over the Dillon.  The lnl is a fine machine that needs more tweaking out of the box but after that it can run just as good.  I also like the powder drop on the lnl better.

 

its hard to describe but the lnl requires more “feel” for me as im loading whereas with the 650 I can basically just crank away without need as much attention to the feel of the machine.  This allows a little faster loading for me as I can just watch what’s going on.

 

Im also one of the weird ones that has loaded a ton on a 1050 and prefers the feel of the 650 over it because there is even less feel with the 1050 during the process.

 

if you’re loading and shooting that much, buy a 650 and sell the one you don’t like, it’ll only be a $75 experiment and my guess is you’ll see the benefits of owning both for certain tasks and keep them 

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34 minutes ago, drewbeck said:

I have and use both. I run a thru die bullet feeder on my lnl instead of a case feeder because it’s much easier to get the cheap bullet feeder setup on the lnl than it is the case feeder.  The diy casefeeder will be more of a headache to make run consistently and it’s all the same from a time standpoint if you cut out one hand operation from the equation it doesn’t matter whether it’s the case or bullet.  Also, the shellplate on the hornady makes it super easy to slip a case in on the left and is faster than setting Bullets for me.

 

that being said if I had to sell one, I’d sell the lnl over the Dillon.  The lnl is a fine machine that needs more tweaking out of the box but after that it can run just as good.  I also like the powder drop on the lnl better.

 

its hard to describe but the lnl requires more “feel” for me as im loading whereas with the 650 I can basically just crank away without need as much attention to the feel of the machine.  This allows a little faster loading for me as I can just watch what’s going on.

 

Im also one of the weird ones that has loaded a ton on a 1050 and prefers the feel of the 650 over it because there is even less feel with the 1050 during the process.

 

if you’re loading and shooting that much, buy a 650 and sell the one you don’t like, it’ll only be a $75 experiment and my guess is you’ll see the benefits of owning both for certain tasks and keep them 

 

44 minutes ago, rishii said:

I’ve never seen a lock n load, but a buddy that swears by his watched me load ammo on my 650, and told me his press won’t do that 

i can load 100 rounds in around 5 minutes, 800 rounds an hour is fairly easy

 

thanks for the solid info

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My BiL has a LNL.  He has issues.  It seems from seeing online posts/gripes like the major issues pop up when a casefeeder is added.  And it seems if you are going to be changing calibers then you run into issues getting everything just right each time a switch is done. 

 

Do yourself a favor...buy once/cry once.  Sell it & get a 650 with casefeeder.  You'll be happy!

 

BTW, I have 2 650s and now a 1050.  They rock!  The 1050 priming is magic!

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I love my 650 and have had very few, minor issues over the last 8 years and many thousands of rounds loaded.  The RF100 is was of the best additions I've made.  

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I went from a Lee pro 1000 to an LnL and now have a 650. Upgraded to the 650 after 2 frustrating years loading about 20,000 rounds on the lnl. The biggest weakness of the lnl (from my experience) is the case feeder. Between the top (jammed funnel) and bottom ends (feeding cases on to shell plate) I could never get through more than 200 rounds without a stoppage. I now load about 800 rounds/hr and have not had a single notable issue with the 650. For me, it just works.


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I had a LnL and a 650 mounted on the bench for a few years.  Finally got tired of fiddling with the LnL and sold it for less than half what I had into it.  The 650 just flat works.  I've added a few (maybe a lot) of small aftermarket items to make the Dillon easier to use.  

 

I used the 650 without a case feeder for a couple of years.  Once I got the case feeder is when I realized I could do without the LnL.

 

Right now a 650+case feeder is $140 more than a LnL+case feeder.  That IMHO would be $140 well spent.

 

I never owned a set of Dillon dies till a couple of weeks ago.  Picked up a set of 9mm Dillon dies.  They are a much nicer set of dies than the Hornady dies I had been using.

 

 

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I have owned the LNL with Casefeeder, my best friend owned a 650 with Casefeeder.  I have used both for many years loading 9 and 45.  

 

I also loaded on a rate of around 400-500 rph on my LNL, and probably 2-300 rph faster on the 650. The 650 is smoother than the LNL.  Someone mentioned that with the LNL, you have to “feel” the press whereas the 650, you just crank the rounds out.  I couldn’t agree more.  

 

You have already saved your money by investing in a machine, like I did, so you won’t save more money by upgrading your machine.  However, I realized my time was more valuable to me than make Bullets at 400-500 rph.   I sold my LNL and upgraded to a 1050 with bullet feeder, I have absolutely no regrets and wished I had upgraded sooner.  Now I can load at 1200-1400 rph. 

 

You also mentioned you may start loading 223, I recommend upgrading to a 1050 for that also.   

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I have owned the LNL with Casefeeder, my best friend owned a 650 with Casefeeder.  I have used both for many years loading 9 and 45.  
 
I also loaded on a rate of around 400-500 rph on my LNL, and probably 2-300 rph faster on the 650. The 650 is smoother than the LNL.  Someone mentioned that with the LNL, you have to “feel” the press whereas the 650, you just crank the rounds out.  I couldn’t agree more.  
 
You have already saved your money by investing in a machine, like I did, so you won’t save more money by upgrading your machine.  However, I realized my time was more valuable to me than make Bullets at 400-500 rph.   I sold my LNL and upgraded to a 1050 with bullet feeder, I have absolutely no regrets and wished I had upgraded sooner.  Now I can load at 1200-1400 rph. 
 
You also mentioned you may start loading 223, I recommend upgrading to a 1050 for that also.   

This is no joke. I have 2 650s that I loaded 9, 40, 45 on. I eventually upgraded to a 1050 and within the first 100 rounds I wondered what took me so long!! The 650s are solid, but if you’re loading 10s of thousands of rounds you will NOT regret going big and getting the 1050. It’s legit. Add a bullet feeder and auto drive and you’re really on fire!!


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The 650 runs better but the LnL makes higher quality ammo (less runout and depth variances). If rounds per hour is how you judge a machine, look at a 1050. The 1050 makes ammo darn near as good to as good as the LnL but runs so well you can automate it at ludicrous speed.

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I have and use both. Both have their pros and cons. I prefer the big spring around the shell plate over the brass pins. I also like that the Hornady work area is a little bigger. I find it easier to reach inside the press to retrieve a dropped bullet or a tipped case.

Both primer systems can be problematic but both work fine if clean and with properly swaged cases. I like how the Hornady primes away from the primer stack and I like how it doesn't take 7-8 strokes to get primers feeding onto the seater punch.

Both presses are five station so that's a wash. But I like the Dillon removable tool head over the LNL bushings. Dillon's powder system is also better than the Hornady.

With all this said I mostly load on the Dillon nowadays. My LNL is set up for swaging 223 brass. In fact that might be one of it's best uses currently. There's nothing else out there that works as well to swage unless you buy a 1050.

If you get the 650 and like it maybe consider buying the swage assembly for the LNL and using the press in that capacity. Also, call Hornady and tell them they need to make a 9mm swage kit...

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OK all, just ordered a Super 1050 :)

 

Bought it with .223 set up, opted for carbide dies

small and large feeder plates

already have 9mm and 45 dies

 

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OK all, just ordered a Super 1050
 
Bought it with .223 set up, opted for carbide dies
small and large feeder plates
already have 9mm and 45 dies
 
Nice.

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You will like it much more. The 1050 is an awesome machine. I have an LnL as well, but would love to automate most of the process on my 1050.

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Wow! That's great you went for the 1050. 

 

I just went from the LNL to the 650.  650 is a bit more complex to setup. But sure seems like it has much better tolerances then the LNL.   The 650 is solid and I now see why it's so popular.  I drank blue the Koolaid and I like it 

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Plus the Dillon has that no BS warranty which everyone says they use because the Dillons seem to break alot. 

Just kidding, but really all I ever hear is "they rebuild my press for FREE."   And I'm always thinking, man, these presses must break a lot.

 

I don't have one so I don't know,  but I have a LNL and I'm cool with it.   I wouldn't mind a 1050.

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7 hours ago, bodybag0 said:

Plus the Dillon has that no BS warranty which everyone says they use because the Dillons seem to break alot. 

Just kidding, but really all I ever hear is "they rebuild my press for FREE."   And I'm always thinking, man, these presses must break a lot.

 

I don't have one so I don't know,  but I have a LNL and I'm cool with it.   I wouldn't mind a 1050.

I've had one spring break in 8 years and many thousands of rounds loaded.  It actually continued to work after the spring broke, it just wasn't as smooth and made a funny/different noise.

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So here she is :)

IPlcXcP2r_Ct6mRbPDw1juh2mJGMCe_QWdj0lm-f

 

 

Bought it with the 223 configuration since I already own 9mm and 45 dies. So I had to dismantle it enough to change calibers to 9mm, since I have about 3300 9mm bullets and don't have all my 223 components yet. 

 

So first thoughts are;

Easier to setup than the LNL, but this is not my first press so that's definitely a factor. They also pretty much assemble the whole thing for you with whatever caliber you purchased, which is an awesome service to have.

 

I changed from .223 to 9mm once mounted, so I had to change out everything on it except the primer system. Since I've already set up dies before this just took familiarizing my self with the parts and names for those parts, since they make it pretty obvious as to what components you need to change over calibers.

 

I did buy the appropriate caliber conversion kits in 9 and 45, but not an extra toolhead. After pulling the toolhead to do that caliber change, I don't foresee myself purchasing another tool head any time soon. The dies them selves are the easy part to change over IMO, and I mark them anyway to get an approximate setting that just needs to be checked and confirmed once assembled. You still have to pull the toolhead to change the shellplates and then still change the powder measure, change the cassfeeder parts, change the primer system out, so I think an extra toolhead my improve the caliber changes times by 20 minutes at most, however long it takes you to set up your dies. Pre-marking them, I bet I could set up the dies for pistols in under 10 minutes.

 

My other thought on changing calibers is do just not do it more than absolutely necessary. Basically I am going to load all the rounds I can of each caliber once its set up. I'll load all my 9mm, then all my 45, then set up for .223 and develop those loads. After which I'll load all them to. The 1050 makes it quick enough that I can load 10k 9mm for my whole year of shooting, in a week. 

 

Operating the press itself, what difference. I have seen the light, and it is Blue.

My first 500 9mm were done in 25 minutes, I have 4 primer tubes and I can immediately see the need for more. Would be awesome if there was a cheap way to automate filling these things. ?

 

I am glad I went right for the 1050, and my buddy is taking the LNL off my hands so I am pretty happy with my purchase. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, SweetToof said:

Would be awesome if there was a cheap way to automate filling these things. ?

Vibraprime by Frankford Arsenal- ~$50

717zLVP4GzL._SL1500_.thumb.jpg.aafc5d8959c6f63cbb4e76cc6ab5e795.jpg

 

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I have ten primer tubes and a vibraprime. 5-8  minutes or so to be ready to load 1,000 rounds.

 

(Heads up, vibraprimes do not like Federal but positively love feeding CCI and S&B small pistol. Do not recommend if you are a Fedral addict.)

 

Wait until you put a bulletfeeder on the 650.

 

Then all you do is cycle the handle and keep an eye on things.

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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So here she is
IPlcXcP2r_Ct6mRbPDw1juh2mJGMCe_QWdj0lm-fZCbHlIKF8E8i6IY2n1jalGuWjwV5sev2fDfYTogIjuxNi_09ztjG7qoQgA_mV7xq9hl-Ik2-iPLNTg9ulhnonJQqVFH8pXnKhxDH02VX0liYOAXzCUpkAk5keLvXvkoHJK0nj7m_zHOfo6zd6JLmX6kpie-kTvkRiOpO8SAqUl9VKD1zdOmT5JkgXIv2SAwnTGXbY6rPnX6s37_mDlalZtW98--5W2wMzyb0M4ML33m7yP5LU7AnA0vFk8W9bZLJ17EsdGuynO7Wr4ts1ksR8ls2TSpKWboYLRA8DmkRBy3KD-D2T2O07ClNh96oPlHCRrdXD-racV6S_Lr09obM1o812LaUnijxBbxmXRJE2olI2VLbxRggoY_uia0LiP3ltSP1Xz6WWgR3lqQxwTJJC8dt1TYUGXw1LAaESAB679tPu6MjNQNIVOvRv8cmdegQl4Y7EjVkrePveck5tt9sd6YigtvnwYdPWTRumDPXIDFDB7PS1IKJTfJy5VxL0l5VrZ7vqx7N1sgWhtf_Z-5aEPfqiwdRi3GlDffRXN5U5wkKj8sB2G2DrpMm7yhEeHij40f-m21wNGdjyKwSj0q1q18=w704-h938-no
 
 
Bought it with the 223 configuration since I already own 9mm and 45 dies. So I had to dismantle it enough to change calibers to 9mm, since I have about 3300 9mm bullets and don't have all my 223 components yet. 
 
So first thoughts are;
Easier to setup than the LNL, but this is not my first press so that's definitely a factor. They also pretty much assemble the whole thing for you with whatever caliber you purchased, which is an awesome service to have.
 
I changed from .223 to 9mm once mounted, so I had to change out everything on it except the primer system. Since I've already set up dies before this just took familiarizing my self with the parts and names for those parts, since they make it pretty obvious as to what components you need to change over calibers.
 
I did buy the appropriate caliber conversion kits in 9 and 45, but not an extra toolhead. After pulling the toolhead to do that caliber change, I don't foresee myself purchasing another tool head any time soon. The dies them selves are the easy part to change over IMO, and I mark them anyway to get an approximate setting that just needs to be checked and confirmed once assembled. You still have to pull the toolhead to change the shellplates and then still change the powder measure, change the cassfeeder parts, change the primer system out, so I think an extra toolhead my improve the caliber changes times by 20 minutes at most, however long it takes you to set up your dies. Pre-marking them, I bet I could set up the dies for pistols in under 10 minutes.
 
My other thought on changing calibers is do just not do it more than absolutely necessary. Basically I am going to load all the rounds I can of each caliber once its set up. I'll load all my 9mm, then all my 45, then set up for .223 and develop those loads. After which I'll load all them to. The 1050 makes it quick enough that I can load 10k 9mm for my whole year of shooting, in a week. 
 
Operating the press itself, what difference. I have seen the light, and it is Blue.
My first 500 9mm were done in 25 minutes, I have 4 primer tubes and I can immediately see the need for more. Would be awesome if there was a cheap way to automate filling these things. 
 
I am glad I went right for the 1050, and my buddy is taking the LNL off my hands so I am pretty happy with my purchase. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
It is interesting to me that Dillon has had zero competition in this market until just recently with the Mk VII stuff. I guess the semi-pro market is small enough that Hornady, RCBS, etc just left it to Dillon. Still, you would have thought someone else would have made a press that will swage and has a couple extra die stations.

The 1050 is, or was I guess, in a class all to itself.

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15 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I have ten primer tubes and a vibraprime. 5-8  minutes or so to be ready to load 1,000 rounds.

 

(Heads up, vibraprimes do not like Federal but positively love feeding CCI and S&B small pistol. Do not recommend if you are a Fedral addict.)

 

 

dang, I am a federal addict. Are the feds a total no go?

13 hours ago, Tokarev said:

It is interesting to me that Dillon has had zero competition in this market until just recently with the Mk VII stuff. I guess the semi-pro market is small enough that Hornady, RCBS, etc just left it to Dillon. Still, you would have thought someone else would have made a press that will swage and has a couple extra die stations.

The 1050 is, or was I guess, in a class all to itself.

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Yeah they definitely have the market cornered. It seems like once you get to a certain level of shooting/round count you eventually get a Dillon of some kind.

 

Even those mark7's are in their own lane and aren't really competing with Dillon. More of a commercial level machine. 

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