Limcat Razor Cat, Czechmate Parrot or Atlas Chaos?

[clw42]

I'm waffling between the Czechmate and the Chaos myself.  I'm very familiar with the CZ platform, which is a huge plus.  But I've become enamored with the Chaos due to all of the glowing reviews and  I got to try a Nemesis at a recent match and it was awesome!!

 

There is a noticeable cost difference, but I'm not averse to spending more if the performance is appreciable relative to the increase.  However, I'd rather not spend the money if the improvement is marginal.  Unfortunately, I don't think I'd ever be afforded the opportunity to shoot them side by side, so any perceived differences would likely be subjective unless they were glaring.

[lacivilian]

2 hours ago, clw42 said:

I'm waffling between the Czechmate and the Chaos myself.  I'm very familiar with the CZ platform, which is a huge plus.  But I've become enamored with the Chaos due to all of the glowing reviews and  I got to try a Nemesis at a recent match and it was awesome!!

 

There is a noticeable cost difference, but I'm not averse to spending more if the performance is appreciable relative to the increase.  However, I'd rather not spend the money if the improvement is marginal.  Unfortunately, I don't think I'd ever be afforded the opportunity to shoot them side by side, so any perceived differences would likely be subjective unless they were glaring.

Local guy with Czechmate's has spent twice as much money and time trying to get his to run as adequately as the guys running 2011s. When I first got my Chaos and after he shot it, he made the comment that switching back to his Czechmate it is like going from a Ferrari back to a 90's crown vic.

[clw42]

43 minutes ago, lacivilian said:

Local guy with Czechmate's has spent twice as much money and time trying to get his to run as adequately as the guys running 2011s. When I first got my Chaos and after he shot it, he made the comment that switching back to his Czechmate it is like going from a Ferrari back to a 90's crown vic.

 

 

Okay, so that's a pretty solid yes on spending the extra for the proper equipment.

[lacivilian]

2 minutes ago, clw42 said:

 

 

Okay, so that's a pretty solid yes on spending the extra for the proper equipment.

It is your money. I advise to get the Atlas solely on how the gun balances in the hands compared to the front heavy CZ.

[selecw]

51 minutes ago, lacivilian said:

Local guy with Czechmate's has spent twice as much money and time trying to get his to run as adequately as the guys running 2011s. When I first got my Chaos and after he shot it, he made the comment that switching back to his Czechmate it is like going from a Ferrari back to a 90's crown vic.

 

What did he need to fix on the Czechmate?

[lacivilian]

4 minutes ago, selecw said:

 

What did he need to fix on the Czechmate?

You name it, he has done it. From playing with springs, hammer & sear issues, light strikes, adding popple holes, and cutting down the comp. He is continually trying to improve and fix a sub par platform. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by lacivilian

[muncie21]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:05 PM, lacivilian said:

You name it, he has done it. From playing with springs, hammer & sear issues, light strikes, adding popple holes, and cutting down the comp. He is continually trying to improve and fix a sub par platform. 

Sounds like quite a bit of work has been expended to get the CM to run like the owner likes.  Wondering if this is the norm or an outlier?

[B_RAD]

I shoot with a guy who couldn't get his CM to run 100%. He ordered a 2011.  

 

I know he's new to reloading so not sure if the issues he was having is due to improper loading?  

[Rnlinebacker]

I shoot with a guy who couldn't get his CM to run 100%. He ordered a 2011.  
 
I know he's new to reloading so not sure if the issues he was having is due to improper loading?  

here's the short and sweet of it:

CZ's are notoriously short chambered and the magazines do not let you load very long so compressed loads are common.

The 2011 will give you issues as well in 9 major which is why companies like SVI are making 38 super comp only. the 1911 was designed around a longer, mostly over 1.200, cartridge such as 45acp & 38SC.

If you're gonna run a short chambered open gun such as CZ run Autocomp so you can get enough gas AND power factor in the gun

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[George16]

I have no problem making major PF with my CM using Everglades 115 Gr hollow base bullets and 7.6 Gr of CFE pistol at 1.150 - 1.152 OAL. You just have to choose a bullet profile that allows you to load it longer compared to other bullet profiles. 

 

Granted I just got it a couple of months ago, it’s been problem-free so far. Pretty mush stock except for recoil spring, shadow 2 extended safety and slide racker.

[kneelingatlas]

5 hours ago, Rnlinebacker said:

here's the short and sweet of it:

CZ's are notoriously short chambered and the magazines do not let you load very long so compressed loads are common.

The 2011 will give you issues as well in 9 major which is why companies like SVI are making 38 super comp only. the 1911 was designed around a longer, mostly over 1.200, cartridge such as 45acp & 38SC.

If you're gonna run a short chambered open gun such as CZ run Autocomp so you can get enough gas AND power factor in the gun

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

 

Autocomp?!?  I have more than a dozen Open guns, all 9 major (I sold all my 38s), CZs, Tanfoglios, and 2011s; there is no issue making major with any of them using 115gr bullets and the slowest powders.

 

CZ barrels have short throats (the chamber is different from the throat) from the factory, but so do 2011 barrels, so you can ream them just the same.  Even before reaming I could load some round nosed bullets out to 1.180", which is about as long as you can load 115s in a 9mm case anyway.

 

Loads as long as 1.180" also work fine in my Czechmate mags, so that's a non-starter too.

 

Custom 2011s like a Limcat or an Atlas are fine pistols, and because they're large framed they can be had in 38 super, but if you're set on 9mm you're not giving anything up, loadwise, going with a Czechmate.

[telligentgunner]

I'm in the same boat and decided on Limcat. The winner of USPSA Nationals this year ran a Limcat.

Edited October 29, 2018 by telligentgunner

[manolis]

On 10/28/2018 at 3:06 AM, B_RAD said:

I shoot with a guy who couldn't get his CM to run 100%. He ordered a 2011.  

 

I know he's new to reloading so not sure if the issues he was having is due to improper loading?  

I have never see a CM to have problems with factory or good reloaded ammo, major or minor , cleand or dirty.

The problem begins with the reloads (OAL, PROFILE, DIAMETR ) .

Manolis

[kitestir]

I had 2 czechmates and shot them for about 3 years.  They were very reliable.  Had a few issues with the big sticks, but were fixed by grams springs/followers.  I never had an issue with them.  But that being said, I sold both to purchase a Chaos.  The Chaos fits my hands much better and I like the weight balance better.  The dot returns to point of aim almost instantly.  Love it so far. Have about 1500 rounds down range.

[lacivilian]

1 hour ago, kitestir said:

I had 2 czechmates and shot them for about 3 years.  They were very reliable.  Had a few issues with the big sticks, but were fixed by grams springs/followers.  I never had an issue with them.  But that being said, I sold both to purchase a Chaos.  The Chaos fits my hands much better and I like the weight balance better.  The dot returns to point of aim almost instantly.  Love it so far. Have about 1500 rounds down range.

Agreed after handling a few Czechmates, my Chaos feels much more balanced and natural in comparison.

[Foxbat]

On 10/29/2018 at 3:04 AM, telligentgunner said:

I'm in the same boat and decided on Limcat. The winner of USPSA Nationals this year ran a Limcat.

 

The winner would have probably won with an old clunker of a gun, but I don't think Limcat is for everyone.  I had two of them, and they have different feel, which was not my cup of tea.  You may like it, but you may not.   You really need to go with what works for YOU, not some champ.

[Nevadazielmeister]

5 minutes ago, Foxbat said:

 

The winner would have probably won with an old clunker of a gun, but I don't think Limcat is for everyone.  I had two of them, and they have different feel, which was not my cup of tea.  You may like it, but you may not.   You really need to go with what works for YOU, not some champ.

 

I changed just two words to illustrate how your comment does not make sense:

 

"The winner would have probably won with an old clunker of a car, but I don't think Ferrari's are for everyone.  I had two of them, and they have different feel, which was not my cup of tea.  You may like it, but you may not.   You really need to go with what works for YOU, not some champ."

 

So how can someone find out "what works for" them? I mean, there is a high cost and a huge waiting period on these fine pieces of machinery. Absent having friends or other shooters that would allow you to try one, looking to what amazing athletes like JJ run gives the buyer a pretty good idea to make a purchase decision. And really, I would never allow a stranger to shoot my handgun the entire match, but might let them try it out for a few shots. When I did that at a fun steel match up, the two shooters were amazed at the Limcat. So stepping into an Open gun the shooter will learn how to work with that gun. 

 

Expecting someone to try out every firearm before purchase is just not reasonable. And buying and selling can cost more than a whole firearm in the long run.

[Posvar]

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 3:04 AM, telligentgunner said:

I'm in the same boat and decided on Limcat. The winner of USPSA Nationals this year ran a Limcat.

 

Did you order new?

[Foxbat]

13 minutes ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

 

So how can someone find out "what works for" them? I mean, there is a high cost and a huge waiting period on these fine pieces of machinery.

 

This has been discussed many times before.  In my case I went through maybe 10 different guns before finally settling on something I really like.

 

Some were purchased used, some bought new.  The process took several years, and yes, there IS cost involved.  Truth be told, it was not night and day between some of them.  In my personal experience Limcat was a bit further away from my ideal comfort spot than others.  In reality I could have grown used to it, but some other guns felt right the second I took them. 

 

So I am not badmouthing Limcat, but I do believe that selecting your gun based on this year Nationals results might not be the best policy.

[bluedevil008]

The winner ALSO won a different match with an Atlas... LOL

 

And in a different year, a winner also won one of the matches with a Glock, which is widely agreed upon as an inferior platform.  Long story short, people have shooting teams with pro shooters in hopes of having people be swayed just like you just were, but I agree with the sentiment that you should find what works for you.  If you don't have anyone, that's a very very expensive investment to make based on the interwebs.  Limcat, Akai, Atlas... all going to get you the generally same performance.  As long as your equipment is reliable, which all those smiths are, then you start looking at price, looks, customer service, etc.  Limcat is too flashy for me personally and I have seen a lot of malfunctions from all the shooters near me who run them (large Filipino community), but it could easily just be failure to make good ammo on their part, because any of those smiths require high quality ammo to ensure good reliability.  I do plan on buying a Limcat magwell to stick on my Chaos in the off-season.

[CzViper]

 
This has been discussed many times before.  In my case I went through maybe 10 different guns before finally settling on something I really like.
 
Some were purchased used, some bought new.  The process took several years, and yes, there IS cost involved.  Truth be told, it was not night and day between some of them.  In my personal experience Limcat was a bit further away from my ideal comfort spot than others.  In reality I could have grown used to it, but some other guns felt right the second I took them. 
 
So I am not badmouthing Limcat, but I do believe that selecting your gun based on this year Nationals results might not be the best policy.

 
This has been discussed many times before.  In my case I went through maybe 10 different guns before finally settling on something I really like.
 
Some were purchased used, some bought new.  The process took several years, and yes, there IS cost involved.  Truth be told, it was not night and day between some of them.  In my personal experience Limcat was a bit further away from my ideal comfort spot than others.  In reality I could have grown used to it, but some other guns felt right the second I took them. 

What did you settle on and any recommendations. I a novice but am always interested in people's experiences and preferences.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[lacivilian]

21 minutes ago, bluedevil008 said:

The winner ALSO won a different match with an Atlas... LOL

 

And in a different year, a winner also won one of the matches with a Glock, which is widely agreed upon as an inferior platform.  Long story short, people have shooting teams with pro shooters in hopes of having people be swayed just like you just were, but I agree with the sentiment that you should find what works for you.  If you don't have anyone, that's a very very expensive investment to make based on the interwebs.  Limcat, Akai, Atlas... all going to get you the generally same performance.  As long as your equipment is reliable, which all those smiths are, then you start looking at price, looks, customer service, etc.  Limcat is too flashy for me personally and I have seen a lot of malfunctions from all the shooters near me who run them (large Filipino community), but it could easily just be failure to make good ammo on their part, because any of those smiths require high quality ammo to ensure good reliability.  I do plan on buying a Limcat magwell to stick on my Chaos in the off-season.

Very well put. The limcat magwell is the bees knees.

[telligentgunner]

2 hours ago, Posvar said:

 

Did you order new?

 

I haven't gotten one yet but made my decision that is the one I wanted. Yes, I will order it new.

[telligentgunner]

2 hours ago, Foxbat said:

 

The winner would have probably won with an old clunker of a gun, but I don't think Limcat is for everyone.  I had two of them, and they have different feel, which was not my cup of tea.  You may like it, but you may not.   You really need to go with what works for YOU, not some champ.

 

I'm not saying that the gun made him a winner. I'm saying that the person that won in all of his study, knowledge, and training, picked that gun to be the best for him to win with. 

[CodyAxon]

32 minutes ago, lacivilian said:

Very well put. The limcat magwell is the bees knees.

I put limcat magwells on both of my Atlas limited guns. They are truly the bees knees.