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Lastcat

Analyze this

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What do you see?

 

This is normal speed and I'll upload the Slow Mo version soon.

 

CZ Czechmate

Wolff 9# Recoil Spring

Everything else is stock about this CZ

 

Montana Gold 115 CMJ

9.2 VitaVhouri

Federal 200 Primer

Misc. Brass

Length = 1.140

1464 fps

168 PF

 

Tell me what you see. It looks good this speed. But slowed down, it looks like the nose is diving upon shot and dot is leaving the window. Too much powder? Also looks like I am pulling the dot back down, by instinct? or just returning to normal grip position.

 

Oh, the dot was really faded and could hardly see it through the Flip Camera I was using. So I did the best I could, looks like the camera or the gun is tilted just a bit.

 

 

 

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Recoil spring is too heavy. It drives the nose down when it closes. At least in a normal 2011 platform. I run 8’s but really like a 7 with 115’s but the gun has to stay spotless for a 7 to stay reliable. 

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8 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Recoil spring is too heavy. It drives the nose down when it closes. At least in a normal 2011 platform. I run 8’s but really like a 7 with 115’s but the gun has to stay spotless for a 7 to stay reliable. 

 

Thanks Sarge, what I was thinking, but the other direction 😆 I have an 8 in the bag, see how that runs. In the slow mo, you can really see the dive when the slide slams shut. Does the movement up and down look normal. Looks like gun us move straight up and not really doing a muzzle flip. I can tell to, that I am pulling the gun back on target. Don't know if by habit or just a normal recoil back to first position.

Edited by Lastcat

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The slow mo version.

Dot is just all over the place, not really a consistent pattern. Seems I am controlling the dot to get back on target, as a reflex. Don't think I recall making an asserted effort to get back to position one.

 

That first shot was a poor grip. I have this Flip Up Camera I am using on a Tri-Pod and I'm straddling this and watching through the camera at a really faded dot, even on max power. Now on to getting the 2nd shot at the right place and the right timing.

 

When I shot USPSA Open C a few years ago, I used my Glock 22 converted to 357 Sig. Took a while to get used to, but after many rounds I found the sweet spot for the 2nd shot. It was all about timing, it took many matches but got it to work good towards the end. Now it's this CZechmates time, and I've only shot it 4 matches, still trying to get used to the double tap and be accurate. I have had 2 good matches and 2 really bad ones. Still new to me, the sport and the gun.

 

 

Edited by Lastcat

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IMHO you should be using the dot to aim the second shot not trying to time the gun to do a "double tap"

 

I wouldn't gather anything about the recoil spring in your video, It looks like the gun is flipping a lot. Film from the side in SlowMo with a good grip and stance and see what it is really doing.

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32 minutes ago, Foxj66 said:

IMHO you should be using the dot to aim the second shot not trying to time the gun to do a "double tap"

 

I wouldn't gather anything about the recoil spring in your video, It looks like the gun is flipping a lot. Film from the side in SlowMo with a good grip and stance and see what it is really doing.

 

You are right about that, I actually was doing the double tap thing when I was shooting the Glock 357 Open gun in USPSA and did find it to work. I'll work on using the dot to aim in the next practice.

 

I found a clip from June 2018 and uploaded a slow mo below.

I'm using the same load and PF.

8# spring at 8 yards. Results at the end.

 

Gun still seems to flip. Better grip? I'm not totally using a Hulk Grip, it's tight, but still trying to stay relaxed.

 

 

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It flips more than I would think it should for a comped gun. Your weak hand looks like its probably not doing much to assist in the grip.

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4 hours ago, Sarge said:

Recoil spring is too heavy. It drives the nose down when it closes. At least in a normal 2011 platform. I run 8’s but really like a 7 with 115’s but the gun has to stay spotless for a 7 to stay reliable. 

+1

 

i think this is causing the gun to rock vs rising with tbe recoil (while staying flat) and then settling back down into place.   Just my humble opinion.  Try a lighter spring, and if you don’t like the result then return to original and try something else. Just make sure you’re only making one change at a time between tests.  

Edited by jkrispies

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5 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

+1

 

i think this is causing the gun to rock vs rising with tbe recoil (while staying flat) and then settling back down into place.   Just my humble opinion.  Try a lighter spring, and if you don’t like the result then return to original and try something else. Just make sure you’re only making one change at a time between tests.  

 

Yep, one at a time. Thanks.

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Wow, that really moves for a comped gun.  Lighter recoil spring and tighter support hand.

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13 hours ago, Foxj66 said:

It flips more than I would think it should for a comped gun. Your weak hand looks like its probably not doing much to assist in the grip.

 

That's the hand with Carpal Tunnel.

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1 hour ago, Lastcat said:

 

That's the hand with Carpal Tunnel.

I feel for you.  My problem was tennis elbow on the support side.  It’s why I mainly shoot rifle now.  

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1 hour ago, jkrispies said:

I feel for you.  My problem was tennis elbow on the support side.  It’s why I mainly shoot rifle now.  

 

Thanks jk,

 

I guess I have just ignored it and kept on with USPSA, hoping it would not be a hinder, may have to change my game, argh!!

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5 hours ago, Lastcat said:

 

That's the hand with Carpal Tunnel.

 

 

Danm, I know the feeling I have it in both hands.

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Get the surgery. It will drastically improve your grip. The longer you wait, the more damage you do to the nerves.

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28 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Get the surgery. It will drastically improve your grip. The longer you wait, the more damage you do to the nerves.

 

I wish.

 

Right now I am in 2 1/2 years of L&I denial. Not a fun time. I have asked my Lawyer if I could just get the surgery under my current insurance, he says no. I might have to drop out completely, bummer too.

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51 minutes ago, Foxj66 said:

 

 

Danm, I know the feeling I have it in both hands.

 

Dude, how do you carry on?

 

I guess like I did, just grin and bear it. I hope you are scoring better than I was.  🙁

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Just now, Lastcat said:

 

Dude, how do you carry on?

 

I guess like I did, just grin and bear it. I hope you are scoring better than I was.  🙁

 

I have pretty well stopped practicing and dry fire, I still shoot matches. I have been going to physical therapy and tried massage therapy. I will likely have the surgery done right after nationals. From what I gather get it taken care of before it gets really bad and causes permanent nerve damage.

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7 hours ago, Lastcat said:

 

Thanks jk,

 

I guess I have just ignored it and kept on with USPSA, hoping it would not be a hinder, may have to change my game, argh!!

If you love shooting pistol, then by all means carry on!  Having said that, once my body started going south, I made the switch to rifle in Steel Challenge and never looked back.  PCC didn't exist at that time, but you nowadays you still shoot USPSA with a PCC, as well as PCC in steel.  If you haven't tried a rifle, find one to borrow and give it a go (must... resist... no... GIVE IT A SHOT!!!  GIVE IT A SHOT!!!!) and you'll be surprised at how much easier it is on the body.  A huge chunk of the weight is carried on the shoulder, and there's no grip strength needed on the gun's forearm with your support hand, just lift.  I had to have a surgery to correct the tennis elbow, but it hasn't come back at all since I made the switch, and I'm a hundred percent positive that I would have never had the problem to begin with if all I shot was rifle.  I also broke my support arm a few months ago (8 screws and a plate) and had back surgery 3.5 weeks ago, and I'm already dry firing the rimfire rifle pretty doggone well if that tells you anything.  But, like I said, if you're a pistol guy, then do what you love!

Edited by jkrispies

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My recoil control game was greatly improved when I consciously, and aggressively worked on increasing my grip strength.  I also worked on trying to get my left and right hands equally strong.  I'm at that point now and really feel like I can see what's going on with my dot track, and can most obviously see the effect of my grip on my ability to control the track. 

 

In other words, I could not see such a connection between sight movement, and grip as I can now.  I feel it's due to equal and strong grip. 

 

Having said that, I did deal with shooter's elbow (have in both elbows over the years) and BOTH elbows are on the edge all the time.  I can insure them rolling over too fast in bed!  But I feel that strength is the key to recovery and doing it correctly without injuring yourself further is, of course a must. 

 

I don't know much about carpel tunnel, but I know that getting over tendinitis can be done through proper strength training. (I.e., aggressive rehab routine)  If your issue can be handled that way get on it.  

 

If all else fails... well, as others have said.  PCC shooters don't have elbow problems.   I think I'm headed that way one day, but I want to at least get a couple more years of pistol shooting done as long as nothing comes along to screw up these elbows.

 

And one more thing.  My guns recoil LEAST at 170-172 PF (using Autocomp) That's enough gas to get the comp working well.  You should find your optimal gas/movement ratio with your powder. 

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