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FTE / FTSA question

mstamper

By mstamper
in USPSA/IPSC Rules

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mstamper

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I was the shooter last night at my home indoor match.

I was shooting the last stage of the night and was at my last target. 

I pointed my PCC at the target, pulled the trigger, gun went bang (quietly, aka squib), it ejected the brass, I pulled the trigger again and the second round fired and blew the mag out of the gun. I shot AT THE TARGET 2 TIMES, 2 shots were recorded on the timer.

I took the gun to the safe area and was able to clear the squib round and discovered 2 bullets in the barrel. 

 

I was charged with two mikes AND and FTE / FTSA procedural. I am not disputing the mikes as no rounds came out of the gun. I was questioning the FTE / FTSA as I did engage the target. I did not run past it and NOT shoot at it at all. There were 2 shots on the timer. 

 

My question is, and was to the MD, is the validity of the FTE / FTSA procedural being applied? We looked up the rules and could not find anything that addressed this specifically. How would you, as an RO, have scored the target / stage in this scenario?

 

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mstamper

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2 minutes ago, malobukov said:

I don't think FTSA is applicable in this case. That said, it probably doesn't matter much, as the stage is already FUBAR. I would worry more about why did I have a squib in the first place, and why didn't I stop right after it.

I am working on figuring out why I had the squib. TRUST ME, That is very much on my mind. 

in the indoor range there is a lot of echos, unlike at an outdoor stage. the sound of the squib was not heard and by the time the RO figured out something was wrong I had already fired the second shot. I am very fortunate that the very nature of the design of the PCC kept it from being more dangerous. That being said, I do not want to turn this discussion into trying to figure out the squib. 

 

Please let's keep the discussion to my question. thanks

Edited by mstamper
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Lee Cabana Looks for Match

Lee Cabana

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For a target to be engaged, a shot must be fired at it - the glossary in the rule book defines a shot "A bullet which passes completely through the barrel of a firearm."

Had the squib exited the barrel and fell at the shooters feet, that would have been a shot and the target engaged.

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mstamper Sees Sights Lift

mstamper

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Sounds like the MD is an a_-hole. Guy just blows his gun up and he still wants to pile on procedurals? That’s bull!!!!
A - the md is a great guy whose application of the rules is always fair and to the shooters advantage if it can go either way.

B - the md was not the one who called the fte. It was the RO.

C - we were discussing this question at dinner after the match

D - no where in my post was I bitching about the call.

E - my gun did not blow up

F - relax Francis

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

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mstamper Sees Sights Lift

mstamper

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Where does the rule book say we're excused from the rules because we're having a bad day?  Fix it and move on!
- I never said I was excused from the rules.
- Never said I challenged the call at the match
- READ the thread and you will see that I'm working on finding the cause and fixing it.
- look at the above F response.
- I was and am simply asking for discussion and to see where and how the rules apply as I was not sure.



Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

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teros135 Calls Shots

teros135

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51 minutes ago, mstamper said:

- I never said I was excused from the rules.
- Never said I challenged the call at the match
- READ the thread and you will see that I'm working on finding the cause and fixing it.
- look at the above F response.
- I was and am simply asking for discussion and to see where and how the rules apply as I was not sure.



Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
 

 

Relax.  I was replying to mwray, not questioning your judgment.  ?

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Sarge Back From the Dead

Sarge

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7 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

If the gun goes BANG while aiming at a target then you shouldn't be assessed a FTE / FTSA penalty.

Failure to shoot at requires a shot. A shot is a bullet that travels completely through a barrel. Hence just going bang isn’t enough to avoid FTSA penalties

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ATLDave

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16 hours ago, mwray said:

Sounds like the MD is an a_-hole. Guy just blows his gun up and he still wants to pile on procedurals? That’s bull!!!!

 

Well, the MD and the poster went to dinner after the match and had a good time discussing this question.  Both the MD (and RM) and the poster were interested in seeing the responses to this question, which, so far, have tracked all the points that came out over dinner and the rulebook (viewed on phones).  

 

That said, it's probably fair to say the MD is an a-hole... I'm just not sure this question/issue is the best evidence for that proposition.  Especially since the MD didn't assess the penalty (that was another RO).  

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mwray Sees Target

mwray

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Well, the MD and the poster went to dinner after the match and had a good time discussing this question.  Both the MD (and RM) and the poster were interested in seeing the responses to this question, which, so far, have tracked all the points that came out over dinner and the rulebook (viewed on phones).  
 
That said, it's probably fair to say the MD is an a-hole... I'm just not sure this question/issue is the best evidence for that proposition.  Especially since the MD didn't assess the penalty (that was another RO).  

Sorry I fixed it.
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racerba Calls Shots

racerba

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17 hours ago, mwray said:

Sounds like the RO is an a_-hole. Guy just blows his gun up and he still wants to pile on procedurals? That’s bull!!!!

 

So you call somebody an A-hole for applying the rules as written fairly...
I'll refrain from making my next comment...

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mstamper Sees Sights Lift

mstamper

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4 hours ago, ATLDave said:

That said, it's probably fair to say the MD is an a-hole...

Quote

I'm just not sure this question/issue is the best evidence for that proposition

.  Especially since the MD didn't assess the penalty (that was another RO).  

I almost blew my drink out of my nose when I read that. LMAO

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Sarge Back From the Dead

Sarge

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You think this was bad. I recently had a CRO at a major tell me a guy who activated a drop turner but ran the gun dry could not get an FTSA because he tried to shoot but the gun was empty. True story

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Hammer002 Sees Sights

Hammer002

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3 hours ago, Sarge said:

You think this was bad. I recently had a CRO at a major tell me a guy who activated a drop turner but ran the gun dry could not get an FTSA because he tried to shoot but the gun was empty. True story

 

This is only true under BS 1.1.14, “as long as verbalizing ‘bang’ while doing so.”

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