ChuckS Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Hammer002 said: I thought it was a DQ as well. Same as having it on a cart without a flag or bolt locked back. Discussion has long been it’s better to use a flag than lock bolt because if bolt engaged forward would be a DQ. Same as bagging without a flag or unbagging and no flag is present. I’m with sarge, I thought no flag was DQ. This is why I read here, learn and relearn constantly. What’s the June 2016 change you refer to, out of curiosity. Use of keys, lol. Just one of the rule revisions that went on that year. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scott Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I used one of the cheap Tapco ones from Amazon. I put a small/light carabiner on it and I have a key ring hooked to my belt about where you would wear a pistol holster. At Make Ready I just pull it from the gun and clip it to the key ring. Reverse procedure at the Flag command. Simple, cheap, no fumbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mveto Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Best chamber flags for PCC’s are from plug’r they are well made, if you or the RO drop it during a stage it’s easy to find. They are also very easy to insert and remove, even for those pistol guys. https://www.plugrusa.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 9/3/2018 at 3:38 PM, Sarge said: Not sure what you mean. So how long has it been a DQ? And how could somebody not know it at this point? It's NOT a dq, and someone would know that if they knew the rules....... just sayin'.....;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, motosapiens said: It's NOT a dq, and someone would know that if they knew the rules....... just sayin'.....;) Yeah, I got busted on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 This may be a stupid question, but since we are talking about chamber flags I thought I'd ask. Why doesn't USPSA require the use of chamber flags in centerfire pistols when they are bagged? I've been told (by Sarge) that USPSA doesn't consider it a firearm as long as its in a bag. Seems to me chamber flags would make things a little safer so no one could accidentally show up to a match with a round in the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, blacklab said: This may be a stupid question, but since we are talking about chamber flags I thought I'd ask. Why doesn't USPSA require the use of chamber flags in centerfire pistols when they are bagged? I've been told (by Sarge) that USPSA doesn't consider it a firearm as long as its in a bag. Seems to me chamber flags would make things a little safer so no one could accidentally show up to a match with a round in the chamber. This is EXACTLY what I said. "Not to mention a gun is considered inert when bagged or holstered in USPSA. For all intents and purposed it’s not even a gun at that point." USPSA considers it inert. I consider it an inanimate object. inert adjective 1. inactive, still, motionless, dead, passive, slack, static, dormant, lifeless, leaden, immobile, inanimate,unresponsive, unmoving Edited September 5, 2018 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, mveto said: Best chamber flags for PCC’s are from plug’r they are well made, if you or the RO drop it during a stage it’s easy to find. They are also very easy to insert and remove, even for those pistol guys. Just thought I'd mention, you can buy a 5 pack of chamber flags and a 5 pack of tags on Ebay for around $7.00 They charge $12.00 for 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sarge said: This is EXACTLY what I said. "Not to mention a gun is considered inert when bagged or holstered in USPSA. For all intents and purposed it’s not even a gun at that point." USPSA considers it inert. I consider it an inanimate object. OK, but I often thought chamber flags would be a good Idea. Just wondering why they aren't needed for pistols when transporting them to the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClangClang Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 37 minutes ago, blacklab said: OK, but I often thought chamber flags would be a good Idea. Just wondering why they aren't needed for pistols when transporting them to the range. Probably because it's a rule that would be impossible to enforce (there's no one standing at the Safe Area checking pistols as people unbag). And since you're not allowed to handle the gun anywhere except a safe area (which has a backstop/berm) there shouldn't be any safety issues which arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoflungdo Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I think it would be legal. Ask your MD if he will allow it. I'm sure other competitors will be prepared and have a spare you could borrow. When ROing I always take it from the gun at make ready and hold it for the competitor until end of COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ClangClang said: Probably because it's a rule that would be impossible to enforce (there's no one standing at the Safe Area checking pistols as people unbag). And since you're not allowed to handle the gun anywhere except a safe area (which has a backstop/berm) there shouldn't be any safety issues which arise. I guess that makes sense. It just seems odd that all other firearms (.22 rifle/pistol, shotguns, PCC and centerfire rifles ) need them. Even 3GN don't require then in centerfire pistols. I just always thought it would be a good idea. If someone would bring a pistol with a live one in the chamber even if its bagged there is a chance it could be dropped and have a discharge. Edited September 5, 2018 by blacklab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, blacklab said: OK, but I often thought chamber flags would be a good Idea. Just wondering why they aren't needed for pistols when transporting them to the range. The answer for a lot of USPSA rules is "because that's how we have always done it". Trying to understand the logic of legacy USPSA rules is like trying to understand Federal firearms law... there is no logic, it just is Edited September 5, 2018 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 16 hours ago, blacklab said: OK, but I often thought chamber flags would be a good Idea. Just wondering why they aren't needed for pistols when transporting them to the range. Why would chamber flags be needed to transport pistols to the range? The gun is in a box or bag, and it won't be handled until you get to a safety area. There are already rules about it not being loaded (with anything). Then it goes into a holster and stays there. So why we would we need a "chamber flag"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, teros135 said: Why would chamber flags be needed to transport pistols to the range? The gun is in a box or bag, and it won't be handled until you get to a safety area. There are already rules about it not being loaded (with anything). Then it goes into a holster and stays there. So why we would we need a "chamber flag"? My thought is that if someone did by mistake leave a loaded round their gun, bag it and bring it to a match there is a potential for things to go bad. Too many people do home trigger jobs to striker fire handguns. Though I've never see it, I heard horror stories of striker fire guns going off for no reason. Its not uncommon to get to a match an hour or two early and sit around and socialize. IF...….If someone did a home trigger job and if they were carless and left one chambered at home, I wouldn't want to be sitting in front of their range bag. I know there is a lot of if's but in theory it could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 47 minutes ago, blacklab said: My thought is that if someone did by mistake leave a loaded round their gun, bag it and bring it to a match there is a potential for things to go bad. Too many people do home trigger jobs to striker fire handguns. Though I've never see it, I heard horror stories of striker fire guns going off for no reason. Its not uncommon to get to a match an hour or two early and sit around and socialize. IF...….If someone did a home trigger job and if they were carless and left one chambered at home, I wouldn't want to be sitting in front of their range bag. I know there is a lot of if's but in theory it could happen. In theory lots of things can happen we can’t possibly cover every scenario. In nearly 10 years of matches I have seen one gun discharged in a safety area. The shooter just pulled his Glock out of his bag, pointed it, and pulled the trigger. Dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. But I have never seen a gun shoot all by itself...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 One of the Moderators closed this because the question had been asked, and answered, and the topic then drifted into some silly responses that drug it further into the weeds. Some posts were removed to reduce the 'noise' contribution. Thanks, -- Admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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