Should Rule 5.2.5.3 be Updated?

[Akkid17]

18 minutes ago, StealthyBlagga said:

 

LOL - if we made it mandatory, that would certainly cure the problem with over-subscribed matches 

For real

[Shooter212]

I just posted about this last week in the uspsa shooting section. It seemed like I was the only one that thought this way, I am glad more people agree with me. I started in 3 gun and didn’t shoot a uspsa match till after almost two years. It’s rules like this and the way some RO’s are about inforcing them that make me wonder about shooting it sometimes. 

[JAFO]

14 hours ago, Shooter212 said:

I just posted about this last week in the uspsa shooting section. It seemed like I was the only one that thought this way, I am glad more people agree with me. I started in 3 gun and didn’t shoot a uspsa match till after almost two years. It’s rules like this and the way some RO’s are about inforcing them that make me wonder about shooting it sometimes. 

 

Keep in mind that just because the general consensus might be that the rule should be scrapped/changed/updated/etc, it still has to be enforced until a ruling is published or the rulebook is updated to do so.

[Shooter212]

I get its a rule and needs to be inforced. You just don’t need some crabby ro yelling across the range and belittling people for not knowing the all the rules. Everyone should know basic gun handling and not to break 180 etc. I have seen a lot of shooters show up for the first time only to have pointless rules like this get them yelled at and you never see them again. I think coming from 3 gun all these little nuisance rules are hard to grasp. 

[JAFO]

Certainly don't think this one merits yelling at anyone. 

[Sarge]

19 hours ago, Shooter212 said:

I just posted about this last week in the uspsa shooting section. It seemed like I was the only one that thought this way, I am glad more people agree with me. I started in 3 gun and didn’t shoot a uspsa match till after almost two years. It’s rules like this and the way some RO’s are about inforcing them that make me wonder about shooting it sometimes. 

Yeah, those RO’s that enforce the rules are the worst!!

[Shooter212]

On 8/31/2018 at 4:34 PM, Sarge said:

Yeah, those RO’s that enforce the rules are the worst!!

Lol... I know the rules need to be inforced, the way some people enforce them is what I have a problem with. I actually heard an RO tell some one “put your gun away and go home”. That’s not the way dqing someone should be handled. 

[Sarge]

6 minutes ago, Shooter212 said:

Lol... I know the rules need to be inforced, the way some people enforce them is what I have a problem with. I actually heard an RO tell some one “put your gun away and go home”. That’s not the way dqing someone should be handled. 

LOL. Yeah that's F'ed up.

[DKorn]

Yeah, if you’re yelling at someone over this rule then someone’s doing something wrong. 

 

As the RO, all I would do is wait until the person gets into the start position after make ready and then tell them that the hood/strap needs to be engaged per rule 5.2.5.3. If they don’t like it, then “Ok, let’s unload you and you can talk to the CRO/RM while I run the next shooter.” Also, I’m not going to make a stink and try to retroactively impose penalties on past stages- I wasn’t there, so I don’t know for sure what happened. 

[teros135]

42 minutes ago, DKorn said:

Yeah, if you’re yelling at someone over this rule then someone’s doing something wrong. 

 

As the RO, all I would do is wait until the person gets into the start position after make ready and then tell them that the hood/strap needs to be engaged per rule 5.2.5.3. If they don’t like it, then “Ok, let’s unload you and you can talk to the CRO/RM while I run the next shooter.” Also, I’m not going to make a stink and try to retroactively impose penalties on past stages- I wasn’t there, so I don’t know for sure what happened. 

 

This is perhaps the best way to handle it.  Accurate, respectful, fair.  

[DKorn]

1 hour ago, teros135 said:

 

This is perhaps the best way to handle it.  Accurate, respectful, fair.  

 

Thank you. It’s the same way that I handle an incorrect start position and, perhaps most importantly, the same way I would want it handled when I’m the shooter. 

[DKorn]

Did anyone notice the subtle change to 5.2.5.3 in the proposed 2019 rules?

 

” If a retaining strap is permanently attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command” (Empahsis added by me)

 

Thoughts?

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

Did anyone notice the subtle change to 5.2.5.3 in the proposed 2019 rules?

 

” If a retaining strap is permanently attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command” (Empahsis added by me)

 

Thoughts?

Cheap ass gun show holsters with Velcro?

[RJH]

11 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Cheap ass gun show holsters with Velcro?

 

 

Uncle Mikes Baby!!!!  That is my "I am not sure i like this gun yet'" solution.  Shoot a match or 2 with the Uncle Mikes then adjust from there.  I do have the straps removed just because of this rule however.  Haha

[DKorn]

20 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Cheap ass gun show holsters with Velcro?

I’m thinking more about my 3 gun holster, and others that want to use a 3 gun holster for USPSA but don’t want to engage the hood. Previously, I would have to either use the hood, remove it, or use a different holster (I usually just use a different holster). Under the proposed change, all I have to do is show that the hood isn’t permenantly attached and I don’t have to use it. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 Under the proposed change, all I have to do is show that the hood isn’t permenantly attached and I don’t have to use it. 

And a loophole is born! It needs reworded if HQ still wants to address straps or hoods. 

[eern]

41 minutes ago, Sarge said:

And a loophole is born! It needs reworded if HQ still wants to address straps or hoods. 

Yep.  4 screws and mine is off so that is not permanent. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by eern
mispelled word

[DKorn]

3 hours ago, Sarge said:

And a loophole is born! It needs reworded if HQ still wants to address straps or hoods. 

 

Yep, unless the loophole is intentional. Why add the word “permanent” if the goal wasn’t to create a loophole?

[thermobollocks]

Now, does a shower cap count as a retention device?

[Sarge]

13 minutes ago, thermobollocks said:

Now, does a shower cap count as a retention device?

No....... 

[Sarge]

4 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

Yep, unless the loophole is intentional. Why add the word “permanent” if the goal wasn’t to create a loophole?

I think the loophole comes from the fact that if your strap isn’t permanent you don’t have to use it. So if it’s riveted in you have to use it but if it’s screwed on you don’t. So now 5000 range officers will be telling shooters to close or not close and really muddying the waters. 

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, thermobollocks said:

Now, does a shower cap count as a retention device?

Is it permanently mounted?

[DKorn]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

I think the loophole comes from the fact that if your strap isn’t permanent you don’t have to use it. So if it’s riveted in you have to use it but if it’s screwed on you don’t. So now 5000 range officers will be telling shooters to close or not close and really muddying the waters. 

 

To me range officers being inconsistent is an RO training issue, not a rules issue, as long as the rules are clear (or clarified to be clear).  Just my opinion. 

[Sarge]

33 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

To me range officers being inconsistent is an RO training issue, not a rules issue, as long as the rules are clear (or clarified to be clear).  Just my opinion. 

And this proposed rule isn’t clear.

 What constitutes permanent? Screws can be removed, rivets drilled out, stitching cut, etc. literally no strap or hood is permanent 

[Matt1]

I think a reasonable test of “permanent” would be can you remove it while on the line, without tools. That rules out anything with rivets or screws but press studs or Velcro would be ok.

I like the change. Pity it’s not an IPSC thing. I run a bungee cord (like what Ben Stoeger sells). It’s not attached at all but I still get grief sometimes.


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