Which red dot for CO on Stock 2, and why

[Dazhi]

There are other general polls on CO red dot choice, but I want to see what people prefer and think of them on Stock 2s. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Dazhi

[pbRex]

I was just thinking about this last night, glad you started the poll @Dazhi.  

 

No skin in the game but I'm currently leaning DPP or Romeo 1. 

[philippshen]

FF3, I got it for free

[jcc7x7]

DPP mine have held up great and warranty is great IF you need it!

Weight is a concern if you don't mill your slide for it or in my case I'm using a lightened slide like you would on an open or limited gun.

Mount is an EGW dovetail mount, slide is milled like a Tanfo Gold team open slide

CO legal now!

[johnbu]

I ran vortex vipers for 2 seasons. Great dots! Bright, low, long battery life.  simply GREAT ... when they worked.

 

2 seaons and the slide ride beat them to death ... frequently . Sadly, just when I'd get really comfortable with one.... it would fail.  in a less harsh application, i doubt they would ever fail.

 

Now running a romeo1 in 6moa.

 

Also getting vortex venom 6moa replacement dots set up. 

 

FYI - all dots fail.  warranty is highly important.

[aandabooks]

1 hour ago, johnbu said:

I ran vortex vipers for 2 seasons. Great dots! Bright, low, long battery life.  simply GREAT ... when they worked.

 

2 seaons and the slide ride beat them to death ... frequently . Sadly, just when I'd get really comfortable with one.... it would fail.  in a less harsh application, i doubt they would ever fail.

 

Now running a romeo1 in 6moa.

 

Also getting vortex venom 6moa replacement dots set up. 

 

FYI - all dots fail.  warranty is highly important.

 

This.  We have guys at our club that have had all brands of these dots fail on CO guns.  I don't think there is a dot that is currently being made that can stand up to the abuse long term.  Whatever optic you are going to buy, get 2 or 3 and  have a set of co-witness sights on the gun.  That way when the dot fails during a match you can shoot out the stage with the irons.  Then put optic #2 on the gun and send optic #1 back for warranty.  Now #2 is your primary and the whole cycle starts over with #3 being your backup.

 

With that being said I prefer the Leupold DPP 7.5moa.    

[billthemarine2862]

I have used most everything on the list of choices.  I have a slide ride on my open gun, it is my preferred optic.  I have both size DPP's. I do not like the 7.5 as much as the smaller dot.  (The 7.5 reticle is just too big and funky) I do like either DPP better than the Burris or Vortex.  It is heavier but my DPP's have proven reliable and have a much bigger sight window.  

[race1911]

RTS2 (by CMore)......tried the Vortex Venom 6moa (good brightness, controls, battery replacement and manufacturers warranty.....but sight window is too small), tried the DPP (don't like the triangle, the 2.5 dot although small gets bigger as brightness level increases but it starts to "flare" leaving it without a really nice crisp dot, don't like the controls, don't like how heavy it is....do like the brightness, construction, and window size).........RTS2..best of everything:  construction, reliability (now that version4 is reliable), nice crisp dot, nice brightness, good controls, not much heavier than the lighter red dot sights, good manufacturers warranty, battery replacement, window size (only negative is fairly expensive to buy due to the quality of construction:  as is DPP and especially the RMR)

Edited August 28, 2018 by race1911

[SDTMatch40]

I went with a JP J Point . The main reason was weight,  it is less than .5 oz (1/2 ounce) which made it easy to stay under 45oz on the Stock II for USPSA carry optics class using a dovetail mount instead of milling slide. In comparison the fastfire III is 1 oz and Delta Point Pro is almost 2 oz. Luckily I was able to find a used 1 with the Stock II mount for a great price.

It supposedly had over 10k rounds on it when I received it & I have put close to 4k in it without any problems.  I also like that it uses a light sensor to adjust brightness (which actually works compared to my cmore STS2 auto brightness) and is always on unless you put the cover on for storage.  I have had it about a year now and haven't needed to replace the battery yet. The only down side is if your shooting from a relatively dark area (like indoor shoot house) into a bright background, the sensor dims the dot and the brightness outside at the target washes out the dot. Other than that I've been very satisfied with it.

[johnbu]

Fyi -tried a 6moa Sig Romeo1.  thing is stupid bright. Like the highest literally hurts your eyes indoors bright.

 

Sadly, it lasted under 1500 rounds of my super hot 145gr minor 9mm ammo, 130pf marshmallows.  20 rounds into my 3rd 100 round box it went from hitting the A perf to a nice tight cluster 8-10" low at12 yds. All screws tight.  unmounted, remounted, same place. 

 

Shot the rest of the box aiming at the upper A. It formed 2 distinct groups. One at 8" low, one about 2" lower.

 

Yes, sig stands behind them. But claimed time WAITING to open the returned unit is now 5-6 weeks. Figure the normal 1 week transit time... looks like a 2 month turn.  and no, they won't  swap units.  and it died 32 days after order so amazon wont take a return on it

 

Assuming the nice CS person was correct, they are swamped with returns.

 

 

[OPENB]

Leupold is no better. I had a DP replaced under warranty. 2 months. I called 5 weeks in, and was told "any week now." For a simple exchange. 

[johnbu]

1 hour ago, OPENB said:

Leupold is no better. I had a DP replaced under warranty. 2 months. I called 5 weeks in, and was told "any week now." For a simple exchange. 

 

Yet, VORTEX was able to send me a replacement 3 days after calling.   They have THE BEST customer service.   The people at SIG were friendly and helpful, but they turn time is glacial. 

[OPENB]

Agreed. I sent a Viper back for replacement, had one back in a week.

[Dazhi]

Anyone running Romeo 3 on Stock 2?  I heard R3 has a much longer housing body than R1.  Will the cut be too close to the extractor and affect reliability?

[johnbu]

On 9/10/2018 at 9:19 AM, johnbu said:

 

Yet, VORTEX was able to send me a replacement 3 days after calling.   They have THE BEST customer service.   The people at SIG were friendly and helpful, but they turn time is glacial. 

 

Been a month, ive heard ZERO from sig.

 

I guess "lifetime " warranty is time to respond, not time how long it lasts?

 

 

[Dazhi]

Watching Ben's latest podcast, Kim has 3 DPPs and all of them went back to factory after 8k rounds.  2 of them got repaired and the 3rd has gone through 1.5 months and not back yet.  It sounds like no handgun slide mounted optics are reliably enough at this point. 

[motherFNbrandon]

seems like the quick warranty response of vortex might raise them to the top of the crop, if all else is equal.

i'm guessing most of the main manufacturers in this space are hard at work designing their next generation of sights to really handle the rigors of slide ride since its becoming so popular.

[Beef15]

46 minutes ago, motherFNbrandon said:

seems like the quick warranty response of vortex might raise them to the top of the crop, if all else is equal.

i'm guessing most of the main manufacturers in this space are hard at work designing their next generation of sights to really handle the rigors of slide ride since its becoming so popular.

Warrantied my Viper this past spring, about 3k rounds, the glass moved from adhesive failure and zero shifted several feet. Turn around was about a week.

 

Just now planning to play in CO again, we'll see how long it lasts.

[johnbu]

9 hours ago, Dazhi said:

Watching Ben's latest podcast, Kim has 3 DPPs and all of them went back to factory after 8k rounds.  2 of them got repaired and the 3rd has gone through 1.5 months and not back yet.  It sounds like no handgun slide mounted optics are reliably enough at this point. 

I spoke to Joe at PD. He said the same thing. All dots are failing.

 

Anecdotal evidence has DPP lasting the longest, but they still fail.

[Laxman2809]

Vortex decent field of view and rock solid warranty when it breaks.

[B21]

Anyone try the Holosun 507C? I'm toying with the idea of picking up another Stock 2 and having it milled.  

[johnbu]

39 minutes ago, B21 said:

Anyone try the Holosun 507C? I'm toying with the idea of picking up another Stock 2 and having it milled.  

Good luck. At 2.7 oz for the optic you will have to really find places to pull metal out.  there are ways, but it takes a bit of work

Edited October 21, 2018 by johnbu

[jripper]

I’ve been running a rts2.  So far this one is running good (after being returned 3times). I have a dpp but I like the rts2 better.  I’m to the point where I don’t think any of them last forever.  

[MemphisMechanic]

6 hours ago, jripper said:

I’ve been running a rts2.  So far this one is running good (after being returned 3times). I have a dpp but I like the rts2 better.  I’m to the point where I don’t think any of them last forever.  

 

They all fail every 5,000-10,000 rounds of hard frequent use from what I’ve seen. NOTE: exclusively talking about slide-ride applications.

 

Hwansik Kim has 3 DPPs and training nonstop he can’t keep more than 1 running at any given point. There’s a really frank talk about this at the beinning of the newest Practical Shooting After Dark podcast (Ben Stoeger’s thing.) Others have similar experiences with RTS2s and every other dot out there. Nothing large and bright enough to be competitive is bulletproof.

 

Just like competing hard in any kind of sport, you need spares of some equipment, or you accept that it’ll die at some point and cost you the race.

 

If I begin shooting CO at majors, I’ll buy a spare dot.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Dazhi]

17 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

They all fail every 5,000-10,000 rounds of hard frequent use from what I’ve seen. NOTE: exclusively talking about slide-ride applications.

 

Hwansik Kim has 3 DPPs and training nonstop he can’t keep more than 1 running at any given point. There’s a really frank talk about this at the beinning of the newest Practical Shooting After Dark podcast (Ben Stoeger’s thing.) Others have similar experiences with RTS2s and every other dot out there. Nothing large and bright enough to be competitive is bulletproof.

 

Just like competing hard in any kind of sport, you need spares of some equipment, or you accept that it’ll die at some point and cost you the race.

 

If I begin shooting CO at majors, I’ll buy a spare dot.

 

 

Won't you need at least 3 to avoid the dot stop working during a match?  That's the real annoying part - e.g. you cannot just have a main+backup and be done.  You need a backup for the backup. 

  

If you are to follow Ben's advice, you will always keep 1 dot on match gun that is used for match only with very low round count.  Now your practice dot is dead, if you are to switch to the match gun, you risk the match dot going dark in matches, while your practice dot is being repaired.   So you need at least another backup for the practice gun.