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PCC Recommendations


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1 hour ago, jackson923 said:

Look at the Foxtrot Mike rifles.  The new billet lower style is the one I have.  I like it for the forward charging handle which is ambidextrous as I’m a lefty.  Excellent rifle for the money!  Look for them at Primary Arms or Brownells 

I would have to advise against that.  I bought one of their complete side charging uppers from DSG for Colt Pattern mags and it failed miserably.   I shot a match a week ago with a guy who had one of their rigs for Glock mags and it failed as well.  

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I'll throw in a wild card option with the CZ Scorpion. Not AR platform and not a Glock mag adapter but it'll run out of the box and mags are cheap.

 

There are a couple ergonomic upgrades you can make (charging handle and safety) but it is reliable from the factory and doesn't fuss about what ammo you give it.

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1 hour ago, Dirty_J said:

I LOVE my CZ Scorpion SBR... but it's not a gamer gun. Bolt is too heavy. Too much dot movement. 

 

I got my initial PCC classification with the scorpion.  First classifier with the AR platform went up an immediate 7%. 

 

Agreed, that bolt makes it a little more cludgy than a higher end AR PCC. However, I think it's a cool platform and as a more casual shooter I think it's a lot of fun. My first attempt at getting into PCC was a "budget" AR build that was a jam-o-matic. For the same money I now have a Scorpion that will let me play without worrying about reliability.

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On 8/24/2018 at 9:51 AM, SteelCityShooter said:

I've read the "Diving into the PCC Pool" thread but my question is a bit different so forgive me for starting a new thread on what seems to be the same topic.  

 

Background:  I'm a casual PCC shooter and shoot a monthly local Steel Challenge match and a couple of steel plate matches a year.   I'm not good but not terrible either and shoot for enjoyment.  I have no illusions of ever making master and at my age (76) major improvement isn't real likely. 

 

My current PCC is a Ruger PC Carbine set up with the Glock mag well, 33-round Glock magazines, a Taccom 2-chamber compensator and a Vortex Venom red dot on a bmiller rear sight replacement pic rail adapter.  I enjoy it a lot but wonder if something better might be fun to have.  Not essential but fun.  Money is a bit of an object but since iIve owned a Les Baer 1911, a $2000 gun isn't a show stopper.

 

So, my question is which 9 mm PCC's to consider?  I do NOT want to build one from parts, I want to buy a complete "turn-key" carbine which is why I started this new thread.

 

I gather the JP Enterprises GMR-15 is the current class act and I'm considering it but any other good candidates?  I'd like to stay with a Glock mag well but that isn't essential.

 

Thanks for your recommendations.  

 

You can't go wrong with a JP GMR 15.  In Steel Challenge is is my favorite division to shoot.  The best part, it plain old runs. I run mine with a Vortex Razor 6moa.  DM if you are interested in a discount code for 5% off your gun. 

 

 

Steve

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On 9/1/2018 at 11:31 PM, RangerTrace said:

I would have to advise against that.  I bought one of their complete side charging uppers from DSG for Colt Pattern mags and it failed miserably.   I shot a match a week ago with a guy who had one of their rigs for Glock mags and it failed as well.  

That has been my experience as well.  The upper receiver would not even close on any of my lowers. 

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On 9/1/2018 at 9:31 PM, RangerTrace said:

I would have to advise against that.  I bought one of their complete side charging uppers from DSG for Colt Pattern mags and it failed miserably.   I shot a match a week ago with a guy who had one of their rigs for Glock mags and it failed as well.  

My girlfriends PCC has an FM side charging upper, and aside from breaking a firing pin it has been great. 

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On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:31 PM, RangerTrace said:

I would have to advise against that.  I bought one of their complete side charging uppers from DSG for Colt Pattern mags and it failed miserably.   I shot a match a week ago with a guy who had one of their rigs for Glock mags and it failed as well.  

 

Did you contact paul@fm-products.com?  I'm sure he would like to know this and is the kind of guy who makes things right as he wants the best product on the market.  I can tell that at 3 Gun Nation Nationals last November they had rifles in a demo bay where he ran 8K rounds of either Wolf or Tula ammo through them over the weekend without a single malfunction. 

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12 minutes ago, jackson923 said:

 

Did you contact paul@fm-products.com?  I'm sure he would like to know this and is the kind of guy who makes things right as he wants the best product on the market.  I can tell that at 3 Gun Nation Nationals last November they had rifles in a demo bay where he ran 8K rounds of either Wolf or Tula ammo through them over the weekend without a single malfunction. 

I let DSG know and they offered to refund my money, but a co-worker of mine bought it.  I haven't heard if it works well on his lower yet, but it didn't like my Cross Machine and Tool billet lower.

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Companies earn their reputation, we have earned a reputation of great customer service.  There has never been an instance where we were not able to help a guy getting his rig going.  We cant do that if people don't reach out to us.  All we ask is people hit us up if they have any issues, and we be given an opportunity to make things right.

 

We have lost count of the guys who are running our stuff competitively, lots of them here...

 

https://www.instagram.com/foxtrotmikeproducts/

 

As far as the Colt Upper,  we have only 1 returned ever.  When we have worked with clients in the past, we have seen a lot of variation in the Colt lowers.  For the majority of them there were issues with the lowers or magazines, which we we helped resolve for them.  

 

Thanks for the comment about the 3 Gun Nationals demo, we actually shot over 15k rounds of Tula on our original demo uppers, without 1 malfunction.    And one of those uppers was suppressed.  It was documented below.

 

Go to 46:30  see for yourself...

 

https://www.facebook.com/3GNation/videos/10156044866721424/

 

If anyone on the forum ever needs help, please hit us up at info@fm-products.com and we will resolve any issues you have. 

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I started with the FM-9 upper on a blocked AR15 lower was finiky at first but that was due to the Block not the upper.  Loved PCC and got the bug.  Picked up the Billet Lower and dumped all my AR Parts into it (including my buffer)... Had some multi fires and contacted Paul from FM Products... He shipped me out their Buffer, Spring, trigger and Comp.  to which I ran about 2000 rounds without an issue.  When their new Ultralight barrels came in I swapped over and have done nothing but run it hard... most of the time without cleaning.  I'm over 6k rounds of Reloads, and Factory and the thing eats everything.

 

If it weren't for the HHF Adjustment I'd be a USPSA Master now... Grrrrrr 

 

I live in MN and Shoot with Josh Frolich PCC God who runs a JP... along with a lot of guys that work at JP come to my matches... It's not the gun holding me back from beating them... It's the extra 45lbs I'm lugging around in my mid section and poor plan execution.  

 

If your looking for a good rifle with an AMAZING support structure from the Company and it's users... the FM-9 is worth the look for all their parts and full rifle.

 

Funny Story... I was shooting a Benefit Match for a local gun shop here and I had a case separation...  No fault of the Rifle as I shoot reloads.  No damage done except my pride as I was the first shooter... I posted a picture of it on social media... within Minutes Paul was calling me and he had a group of guys wanting to know if I was ok... once they knew I was good, they started asking about specifics... Ammo, Reloads... had me send pictures of the Casing, asking for pictures of the receiver, extractor, BCG and Barrel... I kept telling them it was ammo.. I'd run into some cases that had Crimps half way down and I knew it was one of those that separated...  That's the kind of response and concern FM Products has for its customers/product users.

 

JP's are great rifles... and they do work well, but I prefer the customer service that I have experienced with FM-Products and I'm glad to be associated with them. 

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52 minutes ago, FMP said:

Companies earn their reputation, we have earned a reputation of great customer service.  There has never been an instance where we were not able to help a guy getting his rig going.  We cant do that if people don't reach out to us.  All we ask is people hit us up if they have any issues, and we be given an opportunity to make things right.

 

We have lost count of the guys who are running our stuff competitively, lots of them here...

 

https://www.instagram.com/foxtrotmikeproducts/

 

As far as the Colt Upper,  we have only 1 returned ever.  When we have worked with clients in the past, we have seen a lot of variation in the Colt lowers.  For the majority of them there were issues with the lowers or magazines, which we we helped resolve for them.  

 

Thanks for the comment about the 3 Gun Nationals demo, we actually shot over 15k rounds of Tula on our original demo uppers, without 1 malfunction.    And one of those uppers was suppressed.  It was documented below.

 

Go to 46:30  see for yourself...

 

https://www.facebook.com/3GNation/videos/10156044866721424/

 

If anyone on the forum ever needs help, please hit us up at info@fm-products.com and we will resolve any issues you have. 

 

Ranger Trace please see above comments from Foxtrot Mike. 

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29 minutes ago, lowball020 said:

I started with the FM-9 upper on a blocked AR15 lower was finiky at first but that was due to the Block not the upper.  Loved PCC and got the bug.  Picked up the Billet Lower and dumped all my AR Parts into it (including my buffer)... Had some multi fires and contacted Paul from FM Products... He shipped me out their Buffer, Spring, trigger and Comp.  to which I ran about 2000 rounds without an issue.  When their new Ultralight barrels came in I swapped over and have done nothing but run it hard... most of the time without cleaning.  I'm over 6k rounds of Reloads, and Factory and the thing eats everything.

 

If it weren't for the HHF Adjustment I'd be a USPSA Master now... Grrrrrr 

 

I live in MN and Shoot with Josh Frolich PCC God who runs a JP... along with a lot of guys that work at JP come to my matches... It's not the gun holding me back from beating them... It's the extra 45lbs I'm lugging around in my mid section and poor plan execution.  

 

If your looking for a good rifle with an AMAZING support structure from the Company and it's users... the FM-9 is worth the look for all their parts and full rifle.

 

Funny Story... I was shooting a Benefit Match for a local gun shop here and I had a case separation...  No fault of the Rifle as I shoot reloads.  No damage done except my pride as I was the first shooter... I posted a picture of it on social media... within Minutes Paul was calling me and he had a group of guys wanting to know if I was ok... once they knew I was good, they started asking about specifics... Ammo, Reloads... had me send pictures of the Casing, asking for pictures of the receiver, extractor, BCG and Barrel... I kept telling them it was ammo.. I'd run into some cases that had Crimps half way down and I knew it was one of those that separated...  That's the kind of response and concern FM Products has for its customers/product users.

 

JP's are great rifles... and they do work well, but I prefer the customer service that I have experienced with FM-Products and I'm glad to be associated with them. 

Ranger trace, I also wanted to share with you my experience with Paul Noonan at FM Products. I own 3 uppers, 2 lowers, LPK, BCGs and buffers from FM Products. All run smooth especially with steel cases. I only had one issue that was promptly identified and corrected with a heavier buffer. Paul even sent me ammo on his dime just to make sure the rig tested well.

 

Paul is the kind of owner that will make things right. Sometimes he will get swamped and will be slow to respond because he responds to everyone. The benefit with contacting Paul with issues is that he will use your feedback to improve his products for everyone. I hope you reconsider another try.

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FM-Products is by far the most reliable setup I’ve run. I started with their upper, then grabbed one of their aluminum lowers when they became avaliable about a year later. I beat this thing like it owes me money, and the only malfunctions are me related. Customer service is over the top excellent and personalized. Buy it, run it, smile big ?

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I run a FM upper with their lightweight PCC barrel on my QC10 lower. Zero issues. I shoot rifle matches down in Piru, CA with it while reaching out beyond 100 yards. Cleared a plate rack nearly 1 for 1 at 100 yards last match and took 1st overall. Last few USPSA's I shot GM in the classifiers. Runs great for me, and I plan to run it in major and minor matches in the future. 

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35 minutes ago, Dirty_J said:

F1 is fancy looking for sure.  I dig that they're bringing decorative anodizing into the firearms world. 

 

Not sure about the receiver cuts though. Are they sleeved to keep crud out or can you see the BCG moving?

 

Yes you can see straight through but it is not a concern. From a lot of experience with F1s skeletonized receivers, they actually run cleaner. They blow the carbon/debris out instead of trapping it inside allowing it to build up and eventually causing malfunctions. I shoot about 1000 rds every 2 weeks between practice/matches and "might" clean my gun once a month. Its consistently in dusty south TX environments and hasn't failed me once. I use their 556/308 skeletonized guns around the ranch all the time. They ride in the open on 4 wheelers, get laid down in the dirt and abused more then most people would treat a high-end AR. Bottom line if you like the look don't be discouraged from buying one concerned with reliability revolving around the skeletonized receivers. This winter I'll be working on some videos disproving the misconception! 

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