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Different crimping dies for 9mm


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What crimping dies do you use and why? Pros n cons?

 

I currently use Dillon carbide pistol dies set on a XL650. Using different plated or painted bullets (0.356) generally a majority of them that don't case gauge a 100% (but really close). Majority still function and drop free in the barell chamber.

 

Increasing the crimp can sometimes aid a bit but not completely eliminating the problem. If increasing the crimp from the current setting I get visible crimp marks on the bullets.

 

After examining the final product i think the problem might be the "case" buldging a bit further down on the case (not close to the crimp edge). Would e.g. a LEE Factory Crimp Die aid in this or will that also "groove" the bullet by crimping or sizing the case with bullet too much in the process?

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1 hour ago, Ludde said:

 majority don't case gauge 100% (but really close).

 

Majority still function and drop free in the chamber.

 

Sounds to me like you really don't have a problem with your existing dies.

 

I'd check the OAL with The Plunk Test  ….   Possible that going just a little shorter

might completely solve your problem.

 

BTW, if the majority drop free, they've probably passed The Plunk Test.   I wouldn't worry about the "gauge" …   

Only your chamber matters    :) 

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Understand that most case gauges are tighter than gun barrels. So if your rounds are passing the plunk test then shoot them. I would check your dies before buying something new. Sounds like your die is the issue. Had the same problem, bought a Lee Crimp Die, still had the same problem. Called Dillion and they fixed my problem. Back to my Dillion die for crimping.

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What case gauge are you using?  I have found EGW are tighter specs than Hondo.  Also, rounds will may not pass the EGW where they will with the Hondo, as the EGW will interfer with the bullet ogive but the Hondo will not.  I had this issue when I moved from a LNL to an automated 1050.  Took me a while to figure it out.

 

Take a magic marker and paint the top half of a round that does not pass the gauge, and press it into the gauge a couple of times.  If the marker is scraped off of the bullet, shorten the OAL a little and try again. If it is scraped off the case, you need more crimp.  Final test will be barrel plunk test and how the round feeds/shoots.

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A taper crimp is used to remove the belling when expanding the case. Bullet grip is controlled by how small the sizing die reduces the case diameter and the expander.

So again the taper crimp is only for the streamline the case mouth for feeding. If you have a bullet grip problem then use a under size die and check the diameter of your expander.

And since only people with case OCD trim their cases remember the longer cases will have "more" taper crimp and may bulge below the crimp.

 

 

Edited by bigedp51
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I use a LEE Sizing die to ensure I fully size my cases.  I also use a Factory crimp Die.  I don't recall what my crimp actually is, but I just use enough to remove the bell from the Mr bullet feeder expander in the powder drop.

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Have you measured the finished bullet dia? Some bullets are sized then plated and have a larger than listed diameter.

 

My Shields have a little more difficult time with a .356 diameter as opposed to .355.

 

I use a Hornady taper crimp die with a finished case mouth diameter of .378 and use my barrels for a plunk test since that is where the cartridge is actually needed to function properly.

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I use a Hornady sizing die, I've contemplated getting a U Die though. I use a Lee FCD which was a tremendous improvement over Hornady's combined taper crimp-seater die. I've considered getting a dedicated seater die to replace the Hornady combined die, but it's working just fine, and I can't justify spending money to solve a nonexistent problem.

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Don't use a factory crimp die.  Don't use a case gauge.   Problem solved.  As was already stated, you don't actually have a problem. You have a gauge that creates the appearance of a problem. 

 

With lead, the FCD can do more than groove the bullet.  The FCD resizes the case all the way down with the bullet inside, and it can swage lead in the process, reducing bullet diameter, reducing accuracy, even causing tumbling. 

 

I never case gauge, and the number of failures I have had related to cartridge dimensions is ZERO in I don't know how many tens of thousands of rounds. 

 

Keep something in mind:

 

When a case gauge fails a cartridge, it's suggesting to you that it's done its job.  The more cartridges it fails, the better it appears to be doing its job.  But if you take a step back and think about it, the tighter the gauge gets, the more perfectly good cartridges it fails - - tighter cases gahges are NOT better at their job. 

 

There are guys out there, serious competitors, who use an FCD with .355 jacketed bullets and a Hondo to eliminate the last little possibility that a cartridge might ruin all the time and effort they put into a season of practice and matches.  And I get that.  I still think it's not worth it, but I get it. I wouldn't fault anyone for it. 

 

But that isn't most of us.  Most of us with Hondos and the like have bought a case gauge that culls out perfectly good rounds, then think they need an FCD to make cartridges that work perfectly well in their gun fit a gauge they don't need to begin with. 

 

Every time this conversation comes up, I think of the old comedy cliche:

 

Man: "Doc, my elbow hurts when I do this..."  [demonstrates arm movement that causes pain] "What do you advise?" 

 

Doctor: "Stop doing that." 

 

Stop using a case gauge.  

 

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On 8/26/2018 at 4:42 AM, IDescribe said:

Don't use a factory crimp die.  Don't use a case gauge.   Problem solved.  As was already stated, you don't actually have a problem. You have a gauge that creates the appearance of a problem. 

 

With lead, the FCD can do more than groove the bullet.  The FCD resizes the case all the way down with the bullet inside, and it can swage lead in the process, reducing bullet diameter, reducing accuracy, even causing tumbling. 

 

 

It was an answer like this that I was "searching" for. I 've studied the FCD and was afraid that this might be the fact with "soft" bullets...

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I use the Lee CFC.  Examination of loaded ammo in mixed brass shows three results.

1.  No sign that the sizer section affected the round, just a faint taper crimp of the mouth like I got with Dillon.   Most common result. 

2.  Bright ring where the sizer section brought down the case near the head.*   Somewhat common.

3.  Bright ring over the base band of the bullet where the sizer section resized an oversize bullet or thick case neck.  Uncommon even with cast.   

 

Only the third group affects the bullet as we are so often warned.  If I were very particular, I could cull those out for short range stages or practice.  If I were very very particular, I could use same lot brass.

 

I check ammo with a one holer gauge; I don't feel the need for a high inspection rate to justify the hundred buck hundred holer. 

Most gauge failures are due to burred or dented rims.  Most of those are rectified by reversing the round and twisting the rim in the steel gauge to iron it out.  The remainder go in the practice box.  I can't recall a non-shootable gauge reject except for the very few times a split case has made it through the process. So maybe iDecide is right, just load and shoot.  Let us know how that works for you. 

 

*I use the Dillon resize die with its bugle mouth for heavy and/or lead bullets.  The 115s get a U sizing die to give that Coke bottle contour and prevent setback.   

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