Laser mounted on pcc for only one stage (?)

[BlackBuzzard]

There is no rule violation in this practice is there?

[HoMiE]

Nope, laser and lights are allowed, so if you want to run it or take it off, go for it. 

[Flatland Shooter]

Are you asking if you can take it off between stages or if you can turn it on for one stage and not the others?

 

They are so small and light, I don't see a benefit to removing it.  And there is no rule in USPSA that your laser or even your red dot sight must be turned on for all stages.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Flatland Shooter

[longbeard]

I run mine using a 2inch 45 deg. offset off the receiver rail because I have a carbon fiber tube for a handguard and not an mlok or keymod rail.

I take it off and on as needed. It's rarely needed, but lately I play with it a lot.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[ChuckS]

I found this to be an interesting question as a CRO and PCC shooter.  There is the following handgun rule snippet (the missing stuff is about substitute guns),

 

5.1.7 Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all courses of fire in a match. ---snip---

 

There is no PCC version of 5.1.7.

 

So, use same PCC (or RM permission to substitute): check

Use same sights for all COFs: check

 

Now the next few pages of this thread that aren't here yet will be talking about the meaning of "use" but I do not see a clear path to add or subtract sights during a match.

Seems to me that you gotta keep your "sights" on for the match.

 

Have at it!

Chuck

 

(Personally, I have never considered R&R of the CMR-206 because it doesn't weigh much, it has to be boresighted and the stupid mounting clamp is a PITA to deal with)

 

[SJMPCC022]

3 hours ago, BlackBuzzard said:

There is no rule violation in this practice is there?

Nope! Do as you please, that is why the PCC division is such a blast.

 

As someone who was out of this game for ten years or so, I got back in this year because someone figured out you could chamber an AR15 in 9mm. I saw that and it was game on !

 

In all seriousness, as a former CRO, there are WAAAAAAAAY too many rules in USPSA! I was questioned about the sights on my SS gun at the SSC this year. Mind you, I mentioned I was out of the game a long time. I went to the SSC every year in the late 90's and early 00's, with the same gun!

 

They called the RM ( Jay Worden, who also was the instructor for my CRO stuff) and it took him at least 7 or 8 minutes of reading, paging forward and back, thinking and reasoning to come to the conclusion my sights were fine. I told him it was ridiculous that it takes that much reading to come to a conclusion that 5 out of ten other RM'S may well disagree with. He agreed with me.

 

Keep it safe, and USPSA does a GREAT job of this. Basic mag capacity rules are fine, the box is stupid. The PF should also be lower, 9 major is probably not a real good idea. Keep the divisions even equipment wise and let people have at it! You still have to hit each paper target twice and you get a certain amount of points depending on where you hit said target. That IS the bottom line of this sport. Where the holster resides in relation to your hip or if the mag is in your pocket or on your belt doesn't put a single hole in a target.

[Garmil]

3 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I found this to be an interesting question as a CRO and PCC shooter.  There is the following handgun rule snippet (the missing stuff is about substitute guns),

 

5.1.7 Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all courses of fire in a match. ---snip---

 

There is no PCC version of 5.1.7.

 

So, use same PCC (or RM permission to substitute): check

Use same sights for all COFs: check

 

Now the next few pages of this thread that aren't here yet will be talking about the meaning of "use" but I do not see a clear path to add or subtract sights during a match.

Seems to me that you gotta keep your "sights" on for the match.

 

Have at it!

Chuck

 

(Personally, I have never considered R&R of the CMR-206 because it doesn't weigh much, it has to be boresighted and the stupid mounting clamp is a PITA to deal with)

 

Yep "All references to handgun are deemed to apply to pcc as well"

I read it as not allowed to take on and off.

[Smithcity]

8 minutes ago, Garmil said:

Yep "All references to handgun are deemed to apply to pcc as well"

I read it as not allowed to take on and off.

Correct. I would add USPSA Appendix D8 12, "All references to "handgun" are deemed to apply to PCC as well, except where the terms "holstering", "drawing", or "re-holstering" are referenced, and where otherwise noted. PCC specific rules are in the PCC rules addendum"

 

Appendix D8 13 allows the use of Lasers/Flashlights. 

[SJMPCC022]

If I understand this correctly, the question is you are not allowed to take the laser on and off your gun during a match?

 

Would you take your 45* mounted dot on and off of your gun if you didn't need it for a particular stage ?

 

A laser, just like a dot or a scope has to be zeroed to the rifle. As far as any laser I have ever seen, you screw or clamp them on to something on your gun then you adjust the laser to your dot, kind of like bore sighting. Depending on your intent, further sighting will most likely be required.

 

How would it be possible to take it on and off during a match ? And if you could, the advantage would be ?????????????????????????????????

 

As I said above, there are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many rules in USPSA and I believe this thread proves it !

[HoMiE]

I would say since there is a distinction between sights and laser/lights in the appendix, sights are your red dot or scope and a laser is something other than sights. 

 

 

[stick]

Why take it off?

They are relatively small and light.  Just turn it off

Lately I've been using mine more and more.  I love all the comments I'm getting from the RO's about seeing the green dot bouncing around on the targets.

[Smithcity]

He could be referring to a projecting laser red pr green dot in addition to some form of iron sights or optic.

 

Another data point. I've shot matches that had a indoor / low light stage. PCC was allowed to use a laser, light, etc... it was communicated at the beginning of the match that if a PCC shooter used said devices, they had to stay on the gun for every stage. NOT just the low light stage.

[stick]

5 minutes ago, Smithcity said:

He could be referring to a projecting laser red pr green dot in addition to some form of iron sights or optic.

 

Another data point. I've shot matches that had a indoor / low light stage. PCC was allowed to use a laser, light, etc... it was communicated at the beginning of the match that if a PCC shooter used said devices, they had to stay on the gun for every stage. NOT just the low light stage.

They are small, light and unobtrusive.  why take them off?

[Smithcity]

34 minutes ago, stick said:

They are small, light and unobtrusive.  why take them off?

I can't see a reason for myself to take them off...maybe tight quarters, strange windows? Ultimately, if a shooter forgot to run the light for stage 1-3 and gets to stage 4 which is low light, they can't run a flashlight!

 

I view the rule more as a statement of keeping the same configuration for your firearm through an entire match. Which seems fair. Allow changes to the platform on a per stage basis and suddenly guys will swap 16" uppers for a longer range stage for 6" uppers in close quarter /maneuverable stages.

[longbeard]

I take mine off because with the 45 I am concerned it will get broken or unintentionally turned on in the bag.  I'd prefer to mount it in front of the CMORE.  It does clear the glass of the dot, but it doesn't always clear my weak hand thumb.  If I had a different rail I would leave it installed. As far as sighting....  I sighted it in using the attachment piece.  As long as I attach back the same way it has never been an issue. 

 

Lasers are overrated really.  I do find it useful for index shooting as I run by a target.  I can shoulder the rifle and just look at the target. 

 

Good point on the USPSA rules.  I doubt many care for a club match, but a level 2 and above it's probably wise to get clarification.

[stick]

9 hours ago, Smithcity said:

I can't see a reason for myself to take them off...maybe tight quarters, strange windows? Ultimately, if a shooter forgot to run the light for stage 1-3 and gets to stage 4 which is low light, they can't run a flashlight!

 

 

Tight quarters, strange windows, tight shots are the exact reason I use a laser.  It's easier to reach around with the gun and see the laser dot on the target while pulling the trigger.

[JAFO]

Would you allow a Limited shooter to switch guns between a lightweight one and one with a frame weight attached?  Or allow a shooter to add or remove a frame weight, thumbrest, etc, between stages (assuming the item in question wasn't broken and needed to come off for the gun to be functionally safe)?  If you are considering the laser equipment, would you allow a shooter to move their front mag pouch to the side for a stage with a prone position, when they have been running it up front for other stages?  Your gun and equipment configuration should stay the same for all stages.  Adding a laser for a stage changes your gun's configuration for that stage and gives you a competitive advantage.