25 Yard Groups????

[iflyskyhigh]

So this was mentioned in another post and I didn’t want to hi-jack it.
 
Are people really shooting 1” groups unsupported/offhand at 75’/25 yards?
 
Consistently?
 
I’m sure there are people that can do it. But the number of people saying they can do it doesn’t seem to jive with the number of people I think can actually do it.
 
I shoot lights out, and I can’t do it.
 
I can draw from concealed or OWB, and put two rounds in the A in around 1 sec out to about 30’. Closer I can do it in about 3/4 of a second.
 
I can shoot a decent group out to 45-50 feet. Maybe an inch? Probably not consistently an inch though.
 
I practice. A lot. Like 2-3 times a week. Sometimes 3-4 times a week if I’m not working a lot. I shoot USPA and IDPA. I shoot precision rifle. I shoot thousands and thousands and thousands of pistol and rifle rounds every year. None of this is to say I’m expert, but I think I’m an good shooter, probably above average.
 
I don’t personally know any shooters that can do it...sans maybe our clubs “Bullseye” Pistol shooters.
 
I guess at the end of the day it makes no difference if you can or can’t. If you can, good on you.
 
It just seems these claims are often made to bolster some ones attempt to convince some one else of the need to use a particular bullet, powder, COAL, reloading technique, or pistol set up, and so on and so on.
 
Just curious.

From a real world perspective, and not just target shooting...

Anything 25 yards and beyond I’d like to have a rifle. This is an opinion I’ve developed from real world LE experience and training. I know you most likely won’t have access to a rifle so you make do with what you have.

People who think they can take the kind of time it takes to aim their pistol, under stress, at another human closing in on them at full speed from 25 yards and in, have never had some one closing in on them at full speed from less than 25 yards, simulated or other wise. I promise.

Thankfully I never had to shoot anyone, but I have been close, and I’ve been feet away from a person being shot and a person doing the shooting. It changes your perspective.
 
 
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[rustybayonet]

The best I have done was 30 rds in a 2" group at 45'

.45 with percision hand loads.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I may be wrong, but I've been reading the posts here at BE for a decade,

and don't recall anyone ever claiming that type of accuracy ???

 

I remember one discussion about trying to keep ten shots in a 2-3"

group at 25 yards unsupported.

 

Have I missed anything here ?

 

I certainly cannot keep 5-10 shots in a 1" circle at 25 yards - I'd probably

have trouble doing that fully supported by a bench.

[B585]

I definitely can’t shoot a 1” group at 25 yards consistently unless you are talking about a group of 1 bullet.  I am not sure what thread people were making that claim, but highly doubt there are many USPSA shooters who can.  Even if the shooter was capable of it, it would take a very good semiautomatic pistol and ammo to pull that off.  I have shot with many highly skilled shooters and I have never seen one I think could do that with any degree of consistency.  Most of what I have read say you need to be able to do 1” at 10 yards or 4” at 25 yards for USPSA.

[iflyskyhigh]

I may be wrong, but I've been reading the posts here at BE for a decade,
and don't recall anyone ever claiming that type of accuracy ???
 
I remember one discussion about trying to keep ten shots in a 2-3"
group at 25 yards unsupported.
 
Have I missed anything here ?
 
I certainly cannot keep 5-10 shots in a 1" circle at 25 yards - I'd probably
have trouble doing that fully supported by a bench.

Jack,

The post I was referring to was from a day or so ago on this forum and said:

“I have shot over 1000 rounds of coated lead through this comp and cleaned it once. All you need is a butane torch and a carbon scrapper. Takes 15 minutes. And I shoot 1" groups at 25 yards free standing. I'll keep shooting my coated lead. “

I took free standing to mean off hand / unsupported.

I can’t specifically point to other posts right this second without an exhaustive search (and I’m too lazy to do that), but I know for a fact I’ve seen this claim before. It may have been this forum, or may have been others. I can’t say for sure.

I can say for sure that I’ve seen the claim enough to know that it irks me.

Not sure why it gets my goat [emoji238]? I know it’s silly and petty. After all, who cares what some one claims they can or can’t do?

I’ll let it go now...




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[SilverBolt]

I am content with the A-zone at 25 yards.

[rooster]

1 hour ago, SilverBolt said:

I am content with the A-zone at 25 yards.

Me to.  Can’t group at 25 no matter how hard I try.  Maybe 3 inches on a good day.

[SlvrDragon50]

7 hours ago, iflyskyhigh said:

 

Jack,

The post I was referring to was from a day or so ago on this forum and said:

“I have shot over 1000 rounds of coated lead through this comp and cleaned it once. All you need is a butane torch and a carbon scrapper. Takes 15 minutes. And I shoot 1" groups at 25 yards free standing. I'll keep shooting my coated lead. “

I took free standing to mean off hand / unsupported.

I can’t specifically point to other posts right this second without an exhaustive search (and I’m too lazy to do that), but I know for a fact I’ve seen this claim before. It may have been this forum, or may have been others. I can’t say for sure.

I can say for sure that I’ve seen the claim enough to know that it irks me.

Not sure why it gets my goat ? I know it’s silly and petty. After all, who cares what some one claims they can or can’t do?

I’ll let it go now...




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Absolutely sure it was an open gun and not PCC?

 

The Les Baer are guaranteed to shoot 3" at 50 yards (from rest I'm pretty sure!) so I'd be surprised to see many people who can shoot 1" groups at 25 yards.

 

[rooster]

The gun is guaranteed to do it, but I’d like to see it done freestyle.  

[EEH]

I can draw from concealed or OWB, and put two rounds in the A in around 1 sec out to about 30’. Closer I can do it in about3/4 of a second.

 

pretty d%%%@@ fast from concealed !

[malobukov]

Very few people can shoot 1" groups at 25 yards. World record in 50m Olympic pistol is 583 points. After some math this corresponds to 0.96" five-shot groups at 25 yards.

Edited August 24, 2018 by malobukov
typo

[iflyskyhigh]

I can draw from concealed or OWB, and put two rounds in the A in around 1 sec out to about 30’. Closer I can do it in about3/4 of a second.
 
pretty d%%%@@ fast from concealed !

Repetition. Appendix is doable. No way I could do it from 4 o’clock. I think live fire helps too. Dry fire is good, but there’s just something about a gun going bang that you can’t reproduce. I don’t think I would be as proficient as I am with out actually shooting as much as do, and to be totally honest, it’s not like I can do do that every single time without fail. I’m human. Sometimes I suck. Some days are better than others. Just like with everything else, some days your A game shows up, and some times it doesn’t. With the open gun race holster or OWB I’m pretty consistently a second or under. It’s a depreciating asset for sure. If I go a week or two with out drawing and or shooting it can take some work to get back in the groove.

I also know there is also no way I could shoot as much as do without reloading. Nor could I shoot as much as I do if I didn’t live 5 minutes from the Scottsdale Gun Club, or 30 minutes from the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club. Or 25 minutes from open desert. Arizona is an awesome state to be a firearms enthusiast.

Thanks for the feedback and information. Much appreciated.


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[iflyskyhigh]

Absolutely sure it was an open gun and not PCC?
 

No. I’m not a 100% sure he was talking about an open gun, but the conversation was centered around loading for an open gun.

I just went back to check, because maybe I was wrong, and it looks like the posts in question have been deleted.



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[Hi-Power Jack]

6 hours ago, iflyskyhigh said:

 

  looks like the posts in question have been deleted.
 

 

 

That makes more sense - If I made a comment like that, I'd delete it pretty quickly, too    

[RAP]

I read the same post making the claim of shooting 1” groups at 25 yards. The way the post was written led you to believe it was off hand shooting. I searched for the post too and could not find it.


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[Steve RA]

This is off a rest @ 25 yards.  I won't show my offhand groups !!!       

[obsessiveshooter]

Maybe not on this forum and particular, but generally speaking I see these kind of claims often as well. I used to think, man I must really suck at shooting. Now I just think they are all liars. It's the same as all the claims I've read of people shooting rifles with Iron sights, shooting 1" groups at 100 yd or 2" groups at 200 yds. Yeah right.

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[iflyskyhigh]

Maybe not on this forum and particular, but generally speaking I see these kind of claims often as well. I used to think, man I must really suck at shooting. Now I just think they are all liars.

 

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Right?!?!?

 

And like I said, I probably shouldn’t care. Why should if bother me if some one says they can walk on water? But the chimpanzee in me just wants to shout “BS!” and jump up and down.

 

 

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[nate89]

I think the best offhand group I have shot with an iron sighted pistol was just under 3" at 25.  That is not a consistently reproducable result for me.  If I heard a claim like that I would put some money down to see it in person.

[Hi-Power Jack]

4 hours ago, Steve RA said:

This is off a rest @ 25 yards.  I won't show my offhand groups !!!       

 

WOW !!

 

That is great shooting - that about a 3/4 " group, at 25 yards.     

 

What was the gun ?   (But, kudos to the shooter)    

[Steve RA]

It's a Taurus 1911 .45 with a few enhancements, but stock frame, slide and barrel.

[Steve RA]

Here is one of the best offhand - two handed - that I did about 5 years or so ago.  Getting older has not improved my shooting at all, and the group was slow fire - very slow fire.

[PatJones]

Maybe not on this forum and particular, but generally speaking I see these kind of claims often as well. I used to think, man I must really suck at shooting. Now I just think they are all liars. It's the same as all the claims I've read of people shooting rifles with Iron sights, shooting 1" groups at 100 yd or 2" groups at 200 yds. Yeah right.

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An inch at a hundred with an iron sighted rifle isn't impossible if you use the right target. When my AR was built up as a national match service rifle, I could hold an inch and a quarter off a bench with a sling.

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Here is one of the best offhand - two handed - that I did about 5 years or so ago.  Getting older has not improved my shooting at all, and the group was slow fire - very slow fire.

 

Now you've got me jealous.    

 

Doubt that I have been able to do that since I was in my 30's (during the Great War).     

[Steve RA]

1st WW, I take it ???