XRe Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 (edited) PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!!! so you know what you're getting us into! I'll try to keep this succinct! This is the final location poll for the prospective Enos Forum Member Shoot. Links to the original posts and polls will follow, for your reading pleasure. First, go read Erik's proposal here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...topic=26557&hl=. My understanding from Erik via PM is that all match profit will go to WNPL - ie, this is not a brianenos.com benefit match proposal. To summarize - the forum membership would like to hold a match to get us all together, and to help raise some money for Brian to keep running this great forum (if Brian will accept it). The majority of interest was to have a match in a "big match" format, but keep it low budget (ie, no prize table - bragging rights only). Out of the original location poll, we found several favorites, from which we've gathered as much info as we could at this early stage on what kind of match we could hold in that location, what it would cost, when it could happen, and what kind of manpower it would require. That info is presented here, along with a poll to make a final choice on location. The costs listed below are what the match would have to pay to the host range - the entry fee, the amount of money we can raise for Brian, etc, all depend on that dollar figure to some degree. What follows is all the info I've been able to gather. If you can fill in some holes on these, or add, please let me know and I'll be happy to update this post. Here are the candidates: Range: Indian Territory Practical Shooting Club URL: http://itpsc.net/ Location: Altus, OK - 2 hours from OK City Stats: see web page, and Don's (Azone41) post here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23491# - 8 bays + rifle range, plenty of steel and props, concessions, etc. Location of OK State Match. Pros: Capable facility, with all our needs accomodated. Cons: Not extremely close to an airport - about 2 hours from closest airport. Cost: $20-35/shooter, depending on how much work we ask the club to do Timeframe: between late March and late November Range: Western Nevada Pistol Leage URL: http://www.wnpl.org/ Location: Reno, NV Stats: 10 pistol bays, + rifle range, site of 2004 3-gun Nats, near major airport (Reno) Pros: capable range, match director built in, props and steel at club, activities for family near by, evening entertainment Cons: Hot in Nevada in June Cost: match fee will be $50-100 Timeframe: 1st weekend of May, June, or October Range: Houston URL: none provided Location: Houston, TX Stats: ~45 minutes from Houston airport, hotels w/in 20-30 minutes. Private range. Pros: Several IPSC clubs in the local area, close to airport, close to major city. Cons: except for bathroom facilities, it's up to us to provide everthing else. Cost: $10/head - includes porta-potties Timeframe: March to November Range: Double Tap Ranch URL: http://www.doubletapranch.com/ Location: Wichita Falls, TX Stats: 14 bays, lots 'o props, stats shack, concessions, etc. Home of Double Tap Championship, and North TX Section Champs. Pros: Capable of hosting a large match, central location, fly into Wichita Falls, or 2hr drive from Dallas/Ft. Worth area Cons: We need to setup and staff match, including concessions, if desired. Cost: ~$40 per shooter, not firm Timeframe: available anytime except 12/05-03/06, and 09/06. Range: Frank Garcia's Frostproof Range URL: http://www.frankgarciausa.com/ Location: Frostproof, FL Stats: Home to the FL Open. 10 bays, props, steel, etc. Pros: Capable range, near Orlando, local to many members Cons: Distant for a large part of the country Cost: $25 per shooter, min 100 shooters, 1-3 day format Timeframe: not February, or Jun-Nov. Range: Clark's Shootout Range URL: http://www.bang-inc.com/range.htm Location: Princeton, LA Stats: Home to A4 match. 8 bays + 400 yard rifle range and skeet field. Onsite gun shop. A4 owns the props onsite, but we may be able to use them. Pros: Capable range. Near major cities of Shreveport/Bossier City. Near airport. Cons: We need to setup and staff match, including concessions, if desired. Cost: $1600/day Timeframe: open, but not during A4 match * not clear what is included in rate - have not be able to get in touch w/ range management to work out details. Other Information: The Original Thread. The Would You Shoot? poll. The 1st Location poll. Edited August 11, 2005 by XRe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I vote for Houston.....close and cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 And the poll is up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I vote for FrostProof in November or early December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey QuicksDraw! Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I voted for Frostproof because it's the closest location to me. But I am weak of will and will follow the crowd where ever it may lead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Voted Houston - but, as QuicksDraw says.... anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Note - costs in the descriptions above relate how much it would cost the *match* to use the range. Match fees, in all cases, would be $50-100. In the WNPL case, Erik is handling all the particulars, and it really doesn't matter what it'll cost the match.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I voted for Houston because it absolutely makes the most sense transportation wise for the most people. From my location in the Texas panhandle the airline expense to either coast is about the same. I would really like for Brian and the forum to see some substantial benefit from this deal if at all possible. Has anyone figured the break-even point for the various locations? Given the relatively low numbers that have expressed an interest in this affair I think that number will be important. It appears that Reno has a leg up because Erik Warren has taken an interest in it and has done the work that is not fourth coming from anyone at the other venues. Huzzah for Erik! Build it and they will come. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 It appears that Reno has a leg up because Erik Warren has taken an interest in it and has done the work that is not fourth coming from anyone at the other venues. Huzzah for Erik! Build it and they will come. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's not that the other venues didn't do things - we were setting out to figure out what it would cost to take a match to those places that we designed, staffed, and set up ourselves, and it would be up to us, as a community, to do further planning from there. Erik took the extra initiative to go above and beyond - Huzzah, indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Same distance from NV to FL as from FL to NV... Another CON for Nevada would be the same as Frostproof... Distant. Voted for Frostproof because it's local to me and I can show up a day or two early and help setup, but wouldn't mind going to Houston. If the final word is Nevada, will try my best to get there. If there, please let's shoot for October... May and June have to be really hot and I may sweat and I don't like it when I'm sweaty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XDTim Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 frostPROOF, frostPROOF !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I think it is HUGE that Erik has taken the steps that he has, and spelled out a working plan. Some commented that he didn't really need to post his qualifications on the other thread...well, I am glad he did. Not that I think he needed to, but I do think any other range that is talking about this would need to do the same. No fair saying Frank has run the Florida Open for xx years (for example)...get the match director on here and let us know you are serious. I would certainly like to see similar due diligence from any other range that is talking about hosting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 I would certainly like to see similar due diligence from any other range that is talking about hosting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <sigh> I'm obviously not being clear about things happened.... Before I get into this - I think it's fantastic that Erik's put together the proposal, etc. When this whole shebang started out, we wanted to have a match where we could all get together for the express purpose of having a BE.com member match. We knew we would need a location - and we pretty much knew that the preferred spot (Rio Salado) was out of the picture. We took a consensus on places we'd like to take the match, and set out to figure out what it would cost us to put on a match there, when we could host the match, etc. All of this assumed that *WE* would be doing all the planning, staffing, etc, etc - *WE* were asking places what they'd charge *US*, not asking for proposals. So, the due dilligence would come from within our ranks - not from these locations. We would still have to put all of that stuff together ourselves (select MD, range staff, plan, etc, etc). It so happens that one location had an ambitious forum member who took it a step further, and put together a bid to host the match. Erik's obviously got a plan, and is willing to take the helm to get the match running. In my book, that makes Reno a stronger play, because we already have a volunteer to do a big piece of the work (range liason, and MD). So, you're not seeing a deficiency on the part of the other locations (unless you want to blame the forum membership ). You're seeing a shining star, instead..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 So, you're not seeing a deficiency on the part of the other locations (unless you want to blame the forum membership ). You're seeing a shining star, instead..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like that! What kind of a drive from Vegas to Reno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I like the idea of a fall / winter match in Frostproof. Mid to late November would work, but mid-January would be better. There simply aren't enough major matches in the winter, and it helps break things up when we have no place else to shoot up here in Michigan (or anywhere where it is cold in the winter for that matter). Even Reno in the winter might be better. Why have to choose from all the matches already being hosted during "prime time" (there are a TON of them!). Let's make it a "cabin fever" match. Just my .02. Cheers, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl @ GT Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Yeah, I agree. I voted florida, and a winter match will be great. thanks, Karl @ GT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Nemo, Other than a little boring the drive from Vegas to Reno is about 500 miles and can go by pretty quickly. ( be advised at any speed less than 85-90 mph in NV you go backwards) Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 ( be advised at any speed less than 85-90 mph in NV you go backwards) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ... and get passed by tractor-trailers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 What kind of a drive from Vegas to Reno? Hot and dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 Brian reports that he would not turn down a monetary offering, if one were to be made from the match.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 > Even Reno in the winter might be better. Hell no. Local matches were cancelled in Jan. and Feb. due to snow/ice. And I think I pictured the Dec. match with my iced-over magazines. > May and June have to be really hot Nope. Take it from a "nancy-boy" who skipped the nationals this year due to heat and humidity. Do you think I want to drag steel and walls around setting up in the heat? Nosiree. Anyway, 90 here feels like 80 elsewhere. To be safer from a early heatwave, we could go for May but we'd increase the risk of rain. > My understanding from Erik via PM is that all match profit will go to WNPL I've got another plan I'll run by the WNPL board. Buy them a plate rack and give them 1% of the gross. For the other venues being considered, would our match be covered under the range owner's insurance? Would they require we get our own insurance? Reno would be covered under WNPL's insurance. I've abstained from voting until I can learn see more details of the other venues. I'm certainly not committed to Reno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 For the other venues being considered, would our match be covered under the range owner's insurance? Would they require we get our own insurance? Reno would be covered under WNPL's insurance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The question was not asked, and therefore not answered... Like I said, all we talked about was what it would cost to rent the range Nobody told me I was supposed to, like, know what I was doing Right now, all the info I have is all the info you see, for whatever that's worth. My personal opinion is that we should have the match somewhere where there's a willing liason for the range (at a minimum), preferably someone who can MD. Only a couple of the venues actually meets that criteria. Of the two front runners, only one currently satisfies it (hint, Smitty gave me Frank Garcia's contact info, but I had to track everything down - no one stepped up to take charge in FL... yet... ). At this point, even though it's a pretty close heat between Frostproof and Reno, Reno's the clear winner overall, in my estimation. If someone from FL wants to ante up and take charge, I might change my opinion. But, in Reno, we've got a capable facility and MD that are ready to go - is anyone else really as insane... uh, I mean, willing as Erik to take this on??? Pipe up if so!!! Anyhow, that's my NSVHO.... hee hee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I piped up for Reno since it's a short drive (3 hours) for me and I'd probably be volunteering my time and effort in building stages and helping out Erik. I've been over the hill to Reno for last year's 3g Nat and it's a pretty good facility. There is the advantage of being a dry heat over a wet heat and the fact that we certainly have the room and an MD that has ample experience. I'm all for Reno. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 BTT Go Florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmccrock Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Houston? Which range? Brookshire was mentioned in one thread. Would that be the Impact Range? Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts