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No divisions, only classes?


RJH

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Since there is a thread each week on change a division what if we just had one division and had class wins.  Kinda like a handicap in golf, then you would just shoot to your class and shoot the  gun you want however you like.  

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Shooting a PCC, Open, or Carry Optics gun would be the only viable way to win your class then. Every other division would be at an extreme disadvantage. To be honest it may be so lop-sided in PCC's favor that it might just show how silly it is to have rifles at a pistol match.

Edited by sc68cal
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It used to just be Open.

 

My understanding is people wanted to have divisions for different equipment. USPSA thought it was dumb so those people created another shooting sport that had divisions. At some point USPSA realized they messed up and added some divisions.

 

I wasn't around then, I don't exactly know how it all went down.

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12 minutes ago, sc68cal said:

Shooting a PCC, Open, or Carry Optics gun would be the only viable way to win your class then. Every other division would be at an extreme disadvantage. To be honest it may be so lop-sided in PCC's favor that it might just show how silly it is to have rifles at a pistol match.

Actually that is not true, if we were all in the same division the classification curve would be the same, meaning that if you are not shooting an open gun you would very likely be classified lower than you are now. Like how a  b limited shooter can beat a c open shooter now. In the same curve b limited and c open would probably  be about equal

 

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Just now, Racinready300ex said:

It used to just be Open.

 

My understanding is people wanted to have divisions for different equipment. USPSA thought it was dumb so those people created another shooting sport that had divisions. At some point USPSA realized they messed up and added some divisions.

 

I wasn't around then, I don't exactly know how it all went down.

 

Not exactly 

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2 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Dang and I was hoping for your input

Good one! 

 

Seriously, think it thru. No divisions. So how would someone shooting a production gun keep up with someone shooting open or a PCC?  

 

 

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15 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Good one! 

 

Seriously, think it thru. No divisions. So how would someone shooting a production gun keep up with someone shooting open or a PCC?  

 

 

I actually did, class wins would end up being a bigger deal and except for hoa or at least  A class down pretty much any gun could be competitive.  Just like now if you want to win HOA you will be shooting open/pcc. 

 

This is not really unheard of in the shooting sports , basically it is what they do in trap, sporting clays etc.

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5 minutes ago, RJH said:

I actually did, class wins would end up being a bigger deal and except for hoa or at least  A class down pretty much any gun could be competitive.  Just like now if you want to win HOA you will be shooting open/pcc. 

 

This is not really unheard of in the shooting sports , basically it is what they do in trap, sporting clays etc.

 

Does trap or sporting clays allow a red dot?

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31 minutes ago, RJH said:

Like how a  b limited shooter can beat a c open shooter now.

 

Uh, I just "beat" a GM in production division at a lvl 1 match shooting Open, and I'm just a B in Open. The difference in equipment is that much of a competitive advantage in my favor. I bet there's a couple of my friends that I beat in overall standings that were classified in B in Limited, that while I was classified in C I was still probably on their heels or maybe even beating them. There are differences between classes - but the equipment plays a huge part in it. We need equipment divisions - otherwise everyone will lose to equipment that has optics and large magazines.

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10 minutes ago, RJH said:

I actually did, class wins would end up being a bigger deal and except for hoa or at least  A class down pretty much any gun could be competitive.  Just like now if you want to win HOA you will be shooting open/pcc. 

 

This is not really unheard of in the shooting sports , basically it is what they do in trap, sporting clays etc.

While I would like to win HOA, I don't sweat it at all because someone shooting open or a PCC should beat me. Even if they're a class or two below. Stage desing also has an affect on how much advantage they have. So, to me that point is invalid. I only care about HOA in my division. 

 

I don't know much about trap and sporting clays but I doubt they let shooters compete against other shooters where the equipment hadicap is even close to what it is in USPSA. 

 

You idea is not a good one.  If you want to what you're proposing, I'd suggest you shoot what you want. Then just rank yourself against HOA. The problem you dreamed up is now solved. 

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5 minutes ago, sc68cal said:

 

Uh, I just "beat" a GM in production division at a lvl 1 match shooting Open, and I'm just a B in Open. The difference in equipment is that much of a competitive advantage in my favor. I bet there's a couple of my friends that I beat in overall standings that were classified in B in Limited, that while I was classified in C I was still probably on their heels or maybe even beating them. There are differences between classes - but the equipment plays a huge part in it. We need equipment divisions - otherwise everyone will lose to equipment that has optics and large magazines.

Already addressed this, everyone not in open classification would drop, you are still thinking of the multiple classification curves we have now

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13 minutes ago, frgood said:

I think the OPs original point of a handicapping system was missed. As in golf, handicapping is, from my understanding, the method to level the playing field.

Yes, but everyone is playing with equal equipment. The same clubs.  

 

 

Yes, I know some clubs are better quality but it's the same as tow guys shooting 1911's against each other. 

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Since there is a thread each week on change a division what if we just had one division and had class wins.  Kinda like a handicap in golf, then you would just shoot to your class and shoot the  gun you want however you like.  

Well, I don’t clearly understand what you mean by one division and classes. Please explain.

If only one division, what purpose does it serve? So, the division can be eliminated and you only have classes. And, if you only have classes (which sounds a lot like divisions now), what’s the point of the change?


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26 minutes ago, GeneBray said:


Well, I don’t clearly understand what you mean by one division and classes. Please explain.

If only one division, what purpose does it serve? So, the division can be eliminated and you only have classes. And, if you only have classes (which sounds a lot like divisions now), what’s the point of the change?


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Ha, you are right there would be no divisions, old habits.  Classes would only be based on classifier scores like now, the difference is only your score would matter not the gun type.  Like many of these threads there is no real point, only musing....

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I'd much much rather keep division and kill classification. Completely. Overall within your division and nothing else. I'm also a mean troll/ogre and would do away with all category stuff as well. Probably why I'm not in charge....

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