Rolling 1911s into Production.

[3gunDQ]

What a crock of s#!t! There is no dot requirement in open. If you want to handicap yourself without a dot then knock yourself out. 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, Akkid17 said:

I believe they have a rule that specifically states you must have a slide mounted optic. And I believe that came about due to someone winning a bigger CO match without a dot on the gun. I’d have to run down the rule to be certain 

Appendix D7 - 13

 

 

 

Optical/electronic sights REQUIRED; must be

attached

directly to slide between rear of slide

and ejection port, and may not be mounted to

the frame in any way

 

 

[shootin-blanks]

On 8/16/2018 at 6:53 AM, p7fl said:

 

 

Out of 80 shooters maybe 1 or 2 will shoot 1911s. It is dead in the 200 miles North and South from my home in S. Florida. I like shooting Single Stacks. Sadly, there is no competition and we are competitors.

 

Robert and I still shoot SS, come on over and play... Just let me know when your coming,, I'll make sure we show up..

 

[mmlook]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:31 AM, HCH said:

 

I don’t shoot IDPA. 

 

I only know that there is no reason  SS Minor and Production should be separate. 

 

One of the main differences between production and SSP is,

SAO are not allowed in production, same for SSP.

 

basically the rules were written for production & ssp, to be everything but 1911/2011.

- if you allow a 1911 with a Magwell to compete it production, you also have to allow a 2011.  Which kind of defeats the purpose.

 

if you want to “compete,” shoot L10

lots of people shooting L10 with 1911’s at my local club.

especially if you have a .40, you can choose to shoot SS major/minor, or L10 major

 

 

 

[quliming]

I like this post. I have been shooting single stack minor, and mostly comparing myself with production guys. I don't see much difference if we merge SS into production, and it will be fun to have production major and minor too. Major 8 vs minor 10, it's always been a debate.

[HCH]

12 minutes ago, quliming said:

I like this post. I have been shooting single stack minor, and mostly comparing myself with production guys. I don't see much difference if we merge SS into production, and it will be fun to have production major and minor too. Major 8 vs minor 10, it's always been a debate.

 

Well that makes two of us. 

[Akkid17]

I’d be up for going with ipsc production and classic rules. 15 rounds in production and classic remove the weight limit and it’s still 8-major and 10-minor

[Rnlinebacker]

I keep saying it over and over again. Open Major. Open minor. Limited major. Limited 10 minor. Only 4 divisions needed.

this actually is perfect

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[Shadyscott999]

On 8/24/2018 at 3:46 AM, NWcityguy2 said:

 

There are no cocked and locked production guns.  They are not the same.  

 

Sure there are.  We just don't allow them to start that way.  Actually, most production guns are capable of cocked and locked.  

[mjmagee67]

I have never understood why people think they need to crap all over other divisions. Exactly how does it hurt you to have several divisions with low turn out? Who cares if there are only a few revolver shooters, or L10? Does the low turn out hurt you? NO it doesn't...so shut up, shoot your loved division and let other people have options. 

 

Some people shoot for fun with no asperations to be the next hero gaymer I'm 50 and really enjoy production. But every once in a while I like to drag out my 1911, or revolver, or drag out my Limited gun and win my class in my sectional having not shot the gun in months. Are you worried that other classes slow the match down? Last time I shot Revolver I finished mid pack, literally 41st out of 80.....I don't think I slowed the match down one bit. 

 

You all shoot what you want and let others shoot what they want. Stop trying to tinker with crap.....if you don't like it start your own shooting organization and make your own rules. 

[Rnlinebacker]

let's not and say we did [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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[shootin-blanks]

new to me, Skinny 8rd (major) production gun.. (*Actually I think Nighthawks are considered Semi-Custom not production.)

* Besides, we already have rifles? And suitable for everyday carry "hanger" holsters?

https://i.imgur.com/S7yFOFn.jpg

 

 

[perttime]

2 hours ago, mjmagee67 said:

... Exactly how does it hurt you to have several divisions with low turn out?...

 

 

It doesn't hurt me one bit. One thing it does is make organizing and running a contest a little more complicated.

 

Confession. I shoot IPSC, not USPSA. We just got some new provisional divisions worldwide: PCC, Production Optics, and Production Optics Lite (with a weight limit to favor plastic guns). At low level contests, the organizers can pick what they want to cater for. National, Continental, and World Championships probably get more unwieldy.

[mjmagee67]

1 hour ago, perttime said:

 

It doesn't hurt me one bit. One thing it does is make organizing and running a contest a little more complicated.

 

Confession. I shoot IPSC, not USPSA. We just got some new provisional divisions worldwide: PCC, Production Optics, and Production Optics Lite (with a weight limit to favor plastic guns). At low level contests, the organizers can pick what they want to cater for. National, Continental, and World Championships probably get more unwieldy.

Several years ago I would be inclined to agree with you, when scoring was paper based. BUT now with computer based match scoring (Practiscore) it's a non-issue. Once programed in to the software it is just a drop down menu and the computer/software does the rest. 

[mmlook]

On 9/20/2018 at 10:43 AM, quliming said:

I like this post. I have been shooting single stack minor, and mostly comparing myself with production guys. I don't see much difference if we merge SS into production, and it will be fun to have production major and minor too. Major 8 vs minor 10, it's always been a debate.

if you allow 1911/2011's to run in production, it basically becomes L10 Minor.

I guess it's sorta happening now with the CZ's

I'm not against it, but, it kind of makes it a CZ vs. 2011 race.
Which is kind of what production was designed to eliminate

[Akkid17]

Going with the line of reasoning that SS minor and production with an all steel gun is basically L10 minor, wouldn’t it make sense to allow a 2011 without a magwell (or at least one that fits the box) in this new hybrid division. Then you could run a 2011 with a steel grip in 9mm which would turn it into a single action only 1911 style version of a cz or tanfo production gun. 

[doc88]

I enjoy SS. It's challenging with stage prep and 100 reloads per stage. If I'm shooting a match without a lot of SS turnout I just compare overall scores. If shooting SS minor I compare to production. I think regardless of what division you shoot you should want to compare overall scores to some degree. One who shoots minor or has a limited rounds per mag scoring at the top of the match has accomplished something. As far as what divisions should be combined, how many divisions, etc. I leave that up to the powers that be. Makes no difference to me.

[quliming]

5 hours ago, mmlook said:

if you allow 1911/2011's to run in production, it basically becomes L10 Minor.

I guess it's sorta happening now with the CZ's

I'm not against it, but, it kind of makes it a CZ vs. 2011 race.
Which is kind of what production was designed to eliminate

No, what I was trying to say is just simply merge SS and prod. In other words, no 2011 is allowed, either single action single stack guns or striker/DASA guns.

But anyway, I am not opposed to the idea of L10 minor. I don't see much advantage of one over the other between 2011 and other guns. I think for limited major there is due to the weight, for minor, they are both quite controllable.

[Akkid17]

6 hours ago, quliming said:

No, what I was trying to say is just simply merge SS and prod. In other words, no 2011 is allowed, either single action single stack guns or striker/DASA guns.

But anyway, I am not opposed to the idea of L10 minor. I don't see much advantage of one over the other between 2011 and other guns. I think for limited major there is due to the weight, for minor, they are both quite controllable.

Wouldn’t a 2011 without a magwell just be a mix of production and single stack? Production size and weight and a single action trigger. Or allow single action only guns in production, that’s basically the same thing as allowing a 1911 with a magwell into the division. 

[NWcityguy2]

On 9/21/2018 at 9:23 AM, Shadyscott999 said:

 

Sure there are.  We just don't allow them to start that way.  Actually, most production guns are capable of cocked and locked.  

 

So basically, there is a difference.  But, if you ignore that difference, they are the same.  Stupid internet argument.  

[mmlook]

17 hours ago, quliming said:

No, what I was trying to say is just simply merge SS and prod. In other words, no 2011 is allowed, either single action single stack guns or striker/DASA guns.

But anyway, I am not opposed to the idea of L10 minor. I don't see much advantage of one over the other between 2011 and other guns. I think for limited major there is due to the weight, for minor, they are both quite controllable.

the real advantage of a 1911/2011 platform is the trigger.
If you pay enough money, you can tune a 1911/2011 trigger to be anything you want it to be.
and yes, it can look "stock" to satisfy the old production rules

It's pretty much the reason "production" class exists
- the rules were written to exclusively exclude 1911/2011's

As for L10 minor, the point I was trying to make, was, that division exists already.
- nothing stopping a production or SS shooter from shooting L10 Minor, or limited for that matter


 

[RJH]

Just flipping through some area results from the last year or so and i did not see single stack place higher in the overalls than production (i could have missed one so not guaranteeing it), so it seems that 1911 trigger, blah, blah, didn't matter and if anything production had the advantage.   Of course my conclusion was only results based and not emotionally charged, so i am sure it will be disregarded be both sides.  For the record, i would be fine with all low capacity divisions being lumped together in a 10 minor 8 major division, but i am also fine with it like it is too.

[Gary Stevens]

Once again I ask, other than someone being able to say "I beat so and so in xyz division ". , what is USPSA gaining by a merge?

[waktasz]

Less wasted money on trophies for the lame divisions. 

[Gary Stevens]

There are minimum numbers of competitors listed to have rewards. Don't meet the numbers, no cost to the club but the club still keeps the entry fee.

 

Now what?