p7fl Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Rolling 1911s into Production. I know this sounds Un-American. The country needs a Special Council to even bring this up. But. I travel to different clubs and mostly Level 1 matches. No one is shooting 1911s. It is gone. Out of 80 shooters maybe 1 or 2 will shoot 1911s. It is dead in the 200 miles North and South from my home in S. Florida. I like shooting Single Stacks. Sadly, there is no competition and we are competitors. With 9mm SS, it is easy with 10 rounds, with 45s, it is 8 and major. All the original ideas of opening a box and shooting Production as a starter division is long gone. So why not wrap 1911s into Production and this way we can shoot our classic pistols and still be scored with a larger group. Yes I can continue with my Glock 19s and there really is no substantial difference between the results. My glock 19s probably have almost invested in triggers as the 1911s. Let’s move the 1911s, make it provisional and see if we can bring back the SS world into 2018. DVC jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I like the idea with the caveat that production guns could be 8 major 10 minor too. But, most people are not gonna like the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I've been shooting SS this year. I do something pretty crazy, I look at the overall score instead of the SS score. IMO this is a bad idea, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I shoot production and have friends of about the same skill level that shoot 1911. We also just look at the overall columns in practiscore. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I keep saying it over and over again. Open Major. Open minor. Limited major. Limited 10 minor. Only 4 divisions needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Do production guys get magwells? Or do SS guys loose theirs? 8 round major for both? Which holster rule do we go by? Which weight rule do we use? A lot of details that can kill this idea. Do it wrong and you kill the SS guns completely. Take the magwell off for example, and you probably kill the 1911. Keep the magwell and production moves closer to limited. Only let SS have a magwell and the production guys will feel cheated. This has the potential to ruin one or both divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, rowdyb said: I keep saying it over and over again. Open Major. Open minor. Limited major. Limited 10 minor. Only 4 divisions needed. Go limited 10 minor/8major for the last division and i am right there with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: Do production guys get magwells? Or do SS guys loose theirs? 8 round major for both? Which holster rule do we go by? Which weight rule do we use? A lot of details that can kill this idea. Do it wrong and you kill the SS guns completely. Take the magwell off for example, and you probably kill the 1911. Keep the magwell and production moves closer to limited. Only let SS have a magwell and the production guys will feel cheated. This has the potential to ruin one or both divisions. I like the idea of all the rules stay the same for the divisions as they are now with the exception of production getting to shoot 8 major and done. So if you shoot a SS gun you use those holsters etc, and production uses current production rules. Seems the simplest approach but, ain't gonna happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, RJH said: I like the idea of all the rules stay the same for the divisions as they are now with the exception of production getting to shoot 8 major and done. So if you shoot a SS gun you use those holsters etc, and production uses current production rules. Seems the simplest approach but, ain't gonna happen That doesn't really seem simple to me, one division with two completely different rule sets based on your gun choice seems like it would be a pain in the ass. Simpler would be leave it as is, and just look at the overall to see how you did against production shooters. 11 minutes ago, rowdyb said: I keep saying it over and over again. Open Major. Open minor. Limited major. Limited 10 minor. Only 4 divisions needed. This seems reasonable to me, but I think your average shooter would feel like they need a custom 2011 to be competitive in all of those divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: Do production guys get magwells? Or do SS guys loose theirs? 8 round major for both? Which holster rule do we go by? Which weight rule do we use? ... Set a max mag chute width. Are there big differences between Production guns? 8 round Major, 10 round Minor. Belt equipment "behind hipbone" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: That doesn't really seem simple to me, one division with two completely different rule sets based on your gun choice seems like it would be a pain in the ass. Simpler would be leave it as is, and just look at the overall to see how you did against production shooters. We do it already and it aint that difficult, but it is not gonna happen anyway. The more i think of it, i am more of a run what you brung guy anyway, but nowadays the open guys would whine cause of pcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 We can take a look at Nationals this year. Production and SS head to head in one match. There's more heat in PD but enough in SS that it should be a good comparison to see if there's really an advantage of one over the other just the way they are now. Also if major/minor SS makes a difference outside of the old SS-only-Nationals. My prediction, based on an M-card in both, is there won't be a clear difference from one to the other. The DA first shot hurts a little in PD, but so do single-stack reloads, so it'll be about a wash. My second prediction is people overall won't care and will try to keep them separate anyway, because 'what does it hurt?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Just now, perttime said: Set a max mag chute width. Are there big differences between Production guns? 8 round Major, 10 round Minor. Belt equipment "behind hipbone" So you're saying allow magwells in production as long as they're no bigger then SS magwells? (limited minor) Another thought, max mag chute, 2011 legal? I think there is a rule about 2 piece frames in SS so no 2011, but Caspian? Word the rules wrong and gamers gonna game. Holster height, Production or SS? Weight limit for SS guns? Factory 9mm SS guns can be hard to make the 43 oz rule. Production guns get to weight what now? 50 oz on the high end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 53 minutes ago, rowdyb said: Open Major. Open minor. Limited major. Limited 10 minor. Only 4 divisions needed. 1. OPEN 2. LIMITED 3. PRODUCTION Only divisions needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 48 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said: 1. OPEN 2. LIMITED 3. PRODUCTION Only divisions needed. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said: 1. OPEN 2. LIMITED 3. PRODUCTION Only divisions needed. I personally don't see a problem with the current divisions. Not sure why you think there only need to be 3? Shoot then one you like. Don't shoot the ones you don't. Don't sweat what others want to do. You guys think HQ will make the changes you want the way you want them without jacking them up? They won't! It'll be so jacked up! We'll end up with revolver 10 optics as the only division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Why is it that no one ever says, "Let's lump Revo in with SS" or "Let's make Limited Major 14 rounds and Minor 18"? People always want to f#@k around with Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Why does it bother some if only one or two people shoot a particular division. Those shooters chose to shoot whatever they shoot. They pay their match fee, and presumably have fun. Practiscore does all the statistics regardless of what you are shooting. The rulebook tells us how many shooters are required in a division to make awards. Don't make the specified number you shoot for score only. Where is the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 hours ago, gerritm said: This! You forgot the division for frustrated minor caliber rifle shooters that want to shoot their rifle at a pistol match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 just dump all divisions like we had in the day-run what you brung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutycalls75 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 4 hours ago, rowdyb said: I keep saying it over and over again. Open Major. Open minor. Limited major. Limited 10 minor. Only 4 divisions needed. +1 on this. Well other than the limited minor 10 part. All we need is Open Major, Open Minor, Limited Major, and Limited Minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Lot of good posts in this thread. Personally if I was still into USPSA I would still be shooting SS but because of all the changes in the last couple years I gave up on USPSA. HOW ABOUT WE GO BACK TO THE WRITTEN RULES IN 2014 AND LEAVE IT THE f*#k ALONE!!! That's what the majority of us RO's were trained on, I'm not going to retake the course every year just like I'm sure all the instructors are not going to teach (or try to keep up with) all the new rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 SS is dead as a whole. Look at the results from area matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 That is a real shame, considering that is what started it all. 1911s and to a lesser extent, Browning Hi Powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 35 minutes ago, Steve RA said: That is a real shame, considering that is what started it all. 1911s and to a lesser extent, Browning Hi Powers. eh, there is still room for 1911's in this sport. Limited and Open are dominated by what is basically a 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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