Dissident CR 12 vs T&N 1919

[RAINY0DAYS]

Price is comparable for the two. I see that the dissident is the flavor of the month right now, but I like that the 1919 has the same controls as an AR. Thoughts from anyone who has experience with one or both of these guns? Any others I should look at?

 

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[AKJD]

I don’t have a Dissident gun but I do have a VEPR 12 I built myself because my T&N gun was so unreliable. The Vepr runs 100 % with Fed bulk pack 3 dram. I had Dissident put a left side charging handle on the V12 and I did the rest. The AK style safety doesn’t slow me down a bit. I think the common controls thing is way overrated. Pistol and rifle controls are different and people seem to be able to manage, same with a tube fed shotgun.  I’ll sell you my T&N gun for half price if you want it.

[RAINY0DAYS]

I don’t have a Dissident gun but I do have a VEPR 12 I built myself because my T&N gun was so unreliable. The Vepr runs 100 % with Fed bulk pack 3 dram. I had Dissident put a left side charging handle on the V12 and I did the rest. The AK style safety doesn’t slow me down a bit. I think the common controls thing is way overrated. Pistol and rifle controls are different and people seem to be able to manage, same with a tube fed shotgun.  I’ll sell you my T&N gun for half price if you want it.

That's a good point on the controls. What all did you do to the vepr, and do you think the left side handle is necessary? Only time I could see myself using it is for empty starts and malfs.

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[AKJD]

The first thing I did was strip all the black paint from inside the receiver and bolt carrier group then polished same. Fitted and installed an ALG trigger, reprofiled hammer, installed magwell, extended mag release, and replaced buttstock with AR buttstock after installing adapter. Replaced the dustcover rail with an aluminum one and the dustcover pin with removable one. Cut off sling swivel loops and put skateboard tape over the OEM forearm. Added muzzle brake.  One other thing I did was cut off the thumb lever at the rear of the safety and rivet on a index finger lever.

[joelogic]

DA jokes the left side handle is only for Unload and Show Clear because their guns run so well.

[gerritm]

I have a T&N MKA1919 and have shot it going on 3 years with many rounds thru it. Other than normal maintenance, the only thing I have broken is a gas piston. I have changed the mag springs a couple of times, recoil spring, & firing pin. I have all the mags from the 24, 18, 10, & 5's and they are all reliable. I run 1145 Win AA and Wolf slugs. 

 

Not sure where everyone gets the un-reliable part from their shotguns. My gun has run 99% since day 1. Mags all came tuned from T&N and have worked. Yes occasionally I have a malfunction, usually due to dirty mag or a maintenance issue. All shotguns need maintenance.

 

I shoot with several guys with Dissident shotguns including the owners. They are great shotguns. They run on par with my T&N as far as malfunctions. I have shot them and prefer the same controls as my AR. Muscle memory works for me. They have a different feel & recoil, but are fast, reliable, and accurate. A little heavier towards the muzzle than mine.

 

Both companies have great customer service, and you can't go wrong with either one.

 

gerritm

[AKJD]

Really not hard to understand. Go to the open pistol thread and read about RTS2 and DPP. You can find plenty of posts where one persons works great and another doesn’t. I have 2 RTS2 that are awesome some have one that eats batteries and shuts off. 

I started off loving the T&N, but after breaking a piston and 2 bolt carriers during matches, and constant feeding problems I don’t trust it. From what I read it seems the Match version is more likely to have problems than the earlier XN. I know 2 other people locally that have T&N guns that aren’t thrilled with them. Luck of the draw I guess. I also have read where plenty of people have bought VEPRs that wouldn’t run ( not DA guns).

Edited August 13, 2018 by AKJD

[gerritm]

Most of the local guys who have had MKA1919's did not buy them from T&N and have constant problems with them same as the Veprs that are bought and home worked on.

 

Dissident guns do run. They have perfected what to do with them to get them that way, but you pay for it.

 

Maybe I was lucky with mt T&N, but it also works. Not sure if it is the later model about 3 years old. When I went into open there was not a lot of mag fed Shotgun choices and most that you could find didn't work. I have had a great experience with them and the shotgun.

 

If I was buying an open shotgun today it would probably be a DA Vepr because they are local, I know the builders, build great guns, and have very good CS.

 

gerritm

[Zebraman]

I have a Firebird TAC12A1 which is an MKA with Firebird's upper and lower receivers..  It runs 99.9 percent of the time.  I love my gun and it shoots way better than I do.  Having said that, I think if I was going to buy a new shotgun, I would get the DA.  DA has the momentum right now since Josh Froelich won the world shoot last month.  I really like the ability of the gun to change chokes w/o taking the muzzle brake  off the gun.  The gun looks very soft shooting, and very flat.

[donno]

I have a Vepr tuned by Dissident Arms. I have not had any issues with the gun, it will run faster than I can run it. As mentioned earlier, mags and ammo are a couple of keys to reliability. Dissident tuned mags are a must as far as I’m concerned. I have tuned a couple myself and they are about 90%. I don’t know what kind of witchcraft they do to the mags but they are solid and 100% reliability. Also, I don’t use “cheap” ammo. All I use is Rio or AA’s. The hulls are the thickest around and hold shape better than most. The comp runs best with a minimum of 1250’s, I prefer 1300’s as the comp works better so no change in recoil impulse. Don’t forget that keeping ammo cool helps with hot weather shooting. I keep a cooler with me and keep the rounds chilled but dry at all matches. Maybe overkill but 90 degree + heat will change the shape of most hulls. The customer service from Mike and Lan is great. They will call you back personally and talk about any issues you may have.

[RAINY0DAYS]

I have a Vepr tuned by Dissident Arms. I have not had any issues with the gun, it will run faster than I can run it. As mentioned earlier, mags and ammo are a couple of keys to reliability. Dissident tuned mags are a must as far as I’m concerned. I have tuned a couple myself and they are about 90%. I don’t know what kind of witchcraft they do to the mags but they are solid and 100% reliability. Also, I don’t use “cheap” ammo. All I use is Rio or AA’s. The hulls are the thickest around and hold shape better than most. The comp runs best with a minimum of 1250’s, I prefer 1300’s as the comp works better so no change in recoil impulse. Don’t forget that keeping ammo cool helps with hot weather shooting. I keep a cooler with me and keep the rounds chilled but dry at all matches. Maybe overkill but 90 degree + heat will change the shape of most hulls. The customer service from Mike and Lan is great. They will call you back personally and talk about any issues you may have.

What's your thoughts on kl12 vs cr12?

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[donno]

If I had the extra coin, I would go with the KL version. The biggest reason is the adjustable chokes. The left side charging handle is nice but not required. If just getting into open, like I did this year, I would recommend the CL to see if its for you. Also, the mags make the gun and they are not cheap to get a properly tuned one.

[Garmil]

how do the R&R saiga models compare to these?

[joelogic]

I haven't seen an R&R saiga at a major in a couple of years but these two guns are light years apart.  But the Vepr is already superior to the saiga.

[JAF1680]

I have 2 MKA's from T+N and they are awesome.  If anyone saw their video last week of him dumping a 28 round mag on the steel target.  They shoot flat and I never loose sight of the target.  I ran an R+R for a while but with the same controls on the MKA as my Ar you just cant beat it.   I only run quality ammo in it though.  I have gotten to the point that I do the same for limited for any match I care about.  

[greatlakes08]

I am a current  and very happy Dissident CR12 owner. The gun ran out of the box from day one using my Vepr factory mags and the dissident tuned mags. I have owned a custom Saiga previously that was very temperamental and failed me at several matches causing me to sell it and went the tube fed way for a while. I have never run into a MK1919 shooter that did not have some sort of feed or other problem with their gun even if they had purchased tuned mags from a custom gun builder. I would highly recommend doing business with Dissident Arms.