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Improving long range rifle shooting


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Any suggestions on how to improve long range rifle shooting? Should I be looking for stance/grip or is it something that just comes with time? 

 

1st match: didn't zero my optic, lots of misses.

2nd match: zeroed at 50 yards but the groupings weren't the best, that said it was all within 2". I'm doing okay with shooting rifle targets that are within 30-50 yards, but the half size targets that are 50 yards away I tend to only get one hit. 

 

I am using a Holosoun HS515C red dot. My difficulty seems to be with getting the rifle steady enough when my dot is on the target. I have limited experience with shooting optics so maybe I am just doing it wrong. Should I just pull the trigger as soon as the dot gets on target or do I need to wait for the dot to steady? And should you always use a wall to brace the rifle if available? It blows my mind how people are able to shoot up to 300 yards with unmagnified optics.

 

I would love to make the move to magnified optics, but it's just out of my budget at the moment.

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This video was helpful to me:

http://blog.defenderoutdoors.com/offhand-rifle-shooting-tips/

 

As far as bracing on a wall / prop for a 50 yard shot, it's going to be slower, but better than getting a penalty for a miss!

 

Spend time to get a great zero and verify it every now and then. It helps with a red dot to pick a zero target that gives you a useful visual reference point. Google turned up this free target that looks good to me (I haven't used it tho) http://www.arma-dynamics.com/red-dot-zero-targets.html

 

Also, look for an Appleseed shooting clinic. These are cheap, nationwide volunteer run classes that teach the traditional funadmentals of rifle marksmanship. 

Edited by DesertTortoise
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3 hours ago, DesertTortoise said:

This video was helpful to me:

http://blog.defenderoutdoors.com/offhand-rifle-shooting-tips/

 

As far as bracing on a wall / prop for a 50 yard shot, it's going to be slower, but better than getting a penalty for a miss!

 

Spend time to get a great zero and verify it every now and then. It helps with a red dot to pick a zero target that gives you a useful visual reference point. Google turned up this free target that looks good to me (I haven't used it tho) http://www.arma-dynamics.com/red-dot-zero-targets.html

 

Also, look for an Appleseed shooting clinic. These are cheap, nationwide volunteer run classes that teach the traditional funadmentals of rifle marksmanship. 

Ah I see the site is finally up. When I was zeroing my optic, arma-dynamics was down, and i couldn't download their targets. I was definitely using a target with far too small of a aiming point.

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Find, sign up for and attend an Appleseed event.  Fundamentals of rifle marksmanship.  It's not easy, even though most of them are 25 meter events.  Between the size of the targets, the position changes, the magazines changes and the number of targets per stage it is a challenge for most shooters.  I've seen guys that regularly compete in CMP/NRA rifle competitions go to an Appleseed and then tell me they learned things (or in some cases, relearned things) that helped them improve their rifle shooting.

 

If you can do it (shoot a rifleman score) at 25 meters you can do it at longer ranges - the difference is in compensating for wind and bullet trajectory, but if you don't have the fundamentals understood and in use prior to that you won't get the trajectory and wind compensation down either.

 

Appleseed will put you on the road (some people attend two or three to finally get that Rifleman's badge) to learning all kinds of important things like how to set up and use a sling to build a good sling supported firing position.  How to move your body to adjust for differences in target distance and in target lateral spacing across your firing lane.  How to get NPOA and why it's important and improves your rifle shooting.

 

I'm not in the RWVA anymore.  I was in instructor 10 years ago, or so and left due to the internal politics (damn shame as a group grows in size more and more politicians end up vying for power within it, but that's human nature, just as it's human nature not to stop that BS early and kick the politicians out).  But the idea is still a very good one.  The training is good (as with anything, some instructors are better than others.  Good training.  Good fun.  Good benefits from the training.

 

Good luck.  For what it's worth, I went to one Appleseed.  Didn't get to where I wanted to be.  Signed up for an RBC (Rifleman's Boot Camp - week long training event that was set up to train instructors, but used to be anyone could attend even if you didn't want to be an instructor, no idea how that goes today) and attended the second one held (Feb. of 2006, I think).  A couple months later I signed up for and attended the CMP Garand Master Instructor class at Camp Perry, OH.  All I'll say about that one is the best part of the trip was the two H&R M1 Garand barreled receivers and the really big case of HXP surplus I bought and brought home with me.  Those classes spend a large amount of time touting the benefits of belonging to the CMP instead of spending it on training people to be good instructors.

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I think my range has an Appleseed event this Fall. I haven't shot my rifle much because of ammo, but I just bought components to load 2000 rounds so hopefully I'll shoot more.

 

I think I was shooting the dot wrong and was trying to let it settle on the target, but I should just shoot as soon as the dot crosses onto the target.

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You can buy/build a .22 rim fire trainer to substitute for the center fire rifles.  I bought a used 10/22 and set it up to mimic my M1A/M1 Garand.  Some people buy the .22 rim fire versions of AR15's.  Some people buy the Marling and Remington semi auto .22's (don't know about now, but 20 years ago people were really liking the Marlins while others were having a lot of malfunction issues with the Remingtons).

 

While most of the training/shooting is at 25 meters, the fundamentals are still fundamentals.

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9 hours ago, M1A4ME said:

You can buy/build a .22 rim fire trainer to substitute for the center fire rifles.  I bought a used 10/22 and set it up to mimic my M1A/M1 Garand.  Some people buy the .22 rim fire versions of AR15's.  Some people buy the Marling and Remington semi auto .22's (don't know about now, but 20 years ago people were really liking the Marlins while others were having a lot of malfunction issues with the Remingtons).

 

While most of the training/shooting is at 25 meters, the fundamentals are still fundamentals.

I almost bought the $200 conversion kit from CMMG a month ago, but I decided against it because it seemed like the .22LR would be insanely dirty? I didn't want to get an AR-22 since they would be weighted differently from my AR and felt it would be a pretty big change between the two. It also seemed like a lot of the BE users who had the CMG kits ended up selling them.

 

I'll have to reevaluate it since I've "upgraded" my 223 ammo to a 75gr Hornady bullet which is double the cost of the 55gr hoser ammo I've been loading. How much ammo would you normally shoot in a session? Would you say 50 is enough? 

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4 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

How much ammo would you normally shoot in a session? Would you say 50 is enough? 

Depends on your situation. Some of my best practice has come from shooting 5 rounds a day, every day for three weeks at 400 yards, no matter the weather and using a different position, barricade or prop everytime. You'll learn more that way than picking one nice day to go sit at a bench or go prone and hammer a target over and over.

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11 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

Depends on your situation. Some of my best practice has come from shooting 5 rounds a day, every day for three weeks at 400 yards, no matter the weather and using a different position, barricade or prop everytime. You'll learn more that way than picking one nice day to go sit at a bench or go prone and hammer a target over and over.

Gotcha. Unfortunately it would probably take me 100 rounds to hit a target a 400 yards 5 times :P It's been tough to go shoot with school since my range is 30 minutes away, and the bays are only open in the afternoon when it's most likely to rain.

 

Would you say there's any benefit in training at 25 yards in terms of improving accuracy rather than speed? Or is 50 yards the minimum to really test rifle skills?

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I get the travel to the range aspect, I'm lucky that mine is just out the backdoor. The rain part isn't a good excuse though, those three weeks where in the spring and included rain, snow, 25+ mph winds, blinding sunlight behind the target and fishbowl looking mirage. Thats part of why it was great practice.

 

There's definitely benefit at 25 yard practice but you better be shooting small targets and it's a waste to use anything bigger than a 22 rimfire. We also don't know where you're at as far as accuracy goes. We all have to start at the beginning with the fundamentals if we want to shoot good groups, but once you have that down it's time to get away from bench/prone shooting and apply those fundamentals in tough positions. 

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24 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

I get the travel to the range aspect, I'm lucky that mine is just out the backdoor. The rain part isn't a good excuse though, those three weeks where in the spring and included rain, snow, 25+ mph winds, blinding sunlight behind the target and fishbowl looking mirage. Thats part of why it was great practice.

 

There's definitely benefit at 25 yard practice but you better be shooting small targets and it's a waste to use anything bigger than a 22 rimfire. We also don't know where you're at as far as accuracy goes. We all have to start at the beginning with the fundamentals if we want to shoot good groups, but once you have that down it's time to get away from bench/prone shooting and apply those fundamentals in tough positions. 

Maybe this might give you a better idea of my accuracy:

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This was from testing loads, but honestly I don't know if I was really aiming for the same spot every time since the target was way too small at 50 yards. I tried my best to aim at the same position. This was from bench with sandbags.

I'll take another look at the CMMG kit then for shooting <25 yards. Honestly, I'm still surprised I had so many misses on the targets, but I didn't get a chance to see where they were exactly, if they were in the black or not on paper at all.

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Yeah thats a terrible target for shooting with a red dot. The target dots should be bigger but more importantly have to be a color that contrasts with the dot. I just went and re-read your OP, when you say lots of misses on half size targets at 50yds what kind of targets are we talking? Skinny sammies or mini poppers or like mini IPSC's? 

Offhand rifle shooting at paper targets in matches is more about confidence in your rifle and not overthinking it than it is about accuracy.

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5 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

Yeah thats a terrible target for shooting with a red dot. The target dots should be bigger but more importantly have to be a color that contrasts with the dot. I just went and re-read your OP, when you say lots of misses on half size targets at 50yds what kind of targets are we talking? Skinny sammies or mini poppers or like mini IPSC's? 

Offhand rifle shooting at paper targets in matches is more about confidence in your rifle and not overthinking it than it is about accuracy.

Mini IPSC targets: 

Image result for mini ipsc target

 

I actually did okay on the stage with offhand shooting (only , but these misses were all from just standing positions. 

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Unless you get lucky, I wouldn't recommend a .22 conversion kit for an Appleseed.  By lucky, I mean a combination of reliability and accuracy.  I have a Ceiner kit that works very well in one of my carbines.  It is the only one I'd trust (that kit is reliable in other AR15's but the other AR15 aren't as accurate with .22 ammo at that particular carbine.)

 

While it's true a Remington or Ruger .22 won't be identical to your AR15, you can still learn fundamentals with them.  And they need to be reliable/accurate as well.  The minimum standard for shooting good scores at an Appleseed is being able to put your bullets into a 1" circle.  Yes, you can learn/improve/have fun at an Appleseed, but the rifleman's badge isn't easy to get.  I've read some people go to two or even three appleseeds before they finally shoot well enough to get that badge.  Then, some people shoot well enough n their very first one.

 

Why do you use match bullets for plinking?  At 25 yds. the Hornady 55 grain FMJBT bullets will shoot plenty good enough to work at an appleseed - or just for fun at the range.  

 

Forgot, the question about how many rounds are fired at an appleseed?  Could be 400 to 600 rounds or more.  Lots of shooting, lots of repetitions of the exercises/stages.  Standing, sitting/kneeling and prone sling supported firing positions.

Edited by M1A4ME
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