JP jumps on the short stroke bandwagon

[Jeremyc_1999]

On 8/4/2018 at 2:00 PM, Neomet said:

Is it just me or is this an $87 solution to something that a stack of 4 or 5 quarters quarters could do equally well??

That is what I did. It seems to be working fine so far.   

[Jeremyc_1999]

On 8/5/2018 at 8:56 PM, SJMPCC022 said:

That makes some sense, I will do that.

 

Again though, my gun functions 100% so far, and fires and spits brass as fast as I can pull the trigger. On a stage a few months ago there were three low targets laying back at a 45* angle over a low( 4' wall). It was classic stick the barrel over the wall and let 6 rounds fly as fast as is humanly possible ( for me at least)  and get 6 hits on three targets that were tight shoulder to shoulder. At least half the squad said " holy s**t!, that sounded fast. 

 

I'm not doubting( any more at least) just wondering what the speed/functioning advantage is vs. cost ?

The reason I went to short stroking is because I was occasionally getting a malfunction where the bullet would go behind the magwell causing a lot of time to fix. 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

On 9/3/2018 at 10:45 AM, NoKimberDave said:

 

Give it another try. I found it to be a huge difference.

 

Just did, and you're right, it is a big difference.  Used several loads, and the gun shot flat with both.  Next I've got to test it against my JP to see which I use for matches - both are short stroke modified.

 

[3gunnuts]

On 8/28/2018 at 8:22 PM, SJMPCC022 said:

Since I bought the awesome Taccom3 buffer system, I have the same deal going. The bolt slides back without effort until it doesn't ! It's not really hard to lock it back manually, but I never hit the lever and sent it. I felt there was more pressure on the bolt than was probably good for it or the barrel extension if this was done many times over.

 

One match with it so far and the RO was more than happy to help out with the flag. Sooner or later that will not be the case and I will lock it back but let it forward with help.

 

Now every start is basically and unloaded start, just not on the clock. 

I flag my own without locking back.  Hold forend with right hand, brace stock against left hip and pull charging handle back with left hand.  Then flag with the right hand. 

[dmshozer1]

On 9/3/2018 at 10:35 PM, Jeremyc_1999 said:

That is what I did. It seems to be working fine so far.   

If JP came out with quarters stamped JP costing a dollar apiece I would bet people

would buy them.

[SJMPCC022]

4 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

If JP came out with quarters stamped JP costing a dollar apiece I would bet people

would buy them.

That is a good one and very true !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

8 hours ago, 3gunnuts said:

I flag my own without locking back.  Hold forend with right hand, brace stock against left hip and pull charging handle back with left hand.  Then flag with the right hand. 

That is a great idea ! My default plan if the RO was an anti PCC dude was to lay on my back and hold the hand guard between my knees, then I could pull the charge handle back with my left hand and flag it with my right !

 

Bet you wish YOU would have thought of that ?????????????????

[3gunnuts]

13 hours ago, SJMPCC022 said:

That is a good one and very true !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That is a great idea ! My default plan if the RO was an anti PCC dude was to lay on my back and hold the hand guard between my knees, then I could pull the charge handle back with my left hand and flag it with my right !

 

Bet you wish YOU would have thought of that ?????????????????

So John Vigler prone position. Legit.

[BartCarter]

I lock the bolt back, insert the flag and  ease bold forward.

[SJMPCC022]

9 hours ago, 3gunnuts said:

So John Vigler prone position. Legit.

I apologize but I am not familiar with Mr. Vigler's work, nor could I find any info on him.

 

Something like the Creedmore position for silhouette shooting ?

[jkrispies]

On 9/5/2018 at 9:54 AM, 3gunnuts said:

I flag my own without locking back.  Hold forend with right hand, brace stock against left hip and pull charging handle back with left hand.  Then flag with the right hand. 

^ This

[3gunnuts]

13 hours ago, SJMPCC022 said:

I apologize but I am not familiar with Mr. Vigler's work, nor could I find any info on him.

 

Something like the Creedmore position for silhouette shooting ?

GM that shoots handguns supine instead of prone.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

1 hour ago, 3gunnuts said:

GM that shoots handguns supine instead of prone.

 

Talk about needing to watch out for height over bore issues... 

[jkrispies]

I’m about to start experimenting with my buffer stroke length using the TACCOM short stroke system.  Am I correct to understand that you’re basically using a custom lengthed spacer behind the buffer system (such as with quarters) to the point that the trigger no longer resets and then backing off (shortening the spacer) from there?

Edited September 16, 2018 by jkrispies

[stick]

1 hour ago, jkrispies said:

I’m about to start experimenting with my buffer stroke length using the TACCOM short stroke system.  Am I correct to understand that you’re basically using a custom lengthed spacer behind the buffer system (such as with quarters) to the point that the trigger no longer resets and then backing off (shortening the spacer) from there?

John,

Are you using the Taccom 3 stage buffer with the short stroke kit?  If you are, then NO quarters.  The Taccom 3 stage buffer has a small delrin spacer that goes in the bottom of the tube, then the 3 stage buffer and finally the short stroke kit.  I had to remove the small delrin spacer in the bottom of the buffer for the short stroke kit to work reliably every time. (It was just a hair to short on the cycle).  If you are using any other buffer combo, start with $1 in quarters and work your way up until it doesn't eject the case, then remove 1-2 quarters until you get reliable feeding again.

[jkrispies]

34 minutes ago, stick said:

John... start with $1 in quarters and work your way up until it doesn't eject the case, then remove 1-2 quarters until you get reliable feeding again.

Thanks!  My situation is a little odd because I’m currently using a rifle length extension with a spacer (the TACCOM kit is designed for a carbine length extension) that I’ve set up as a normal 3 stage TACCOM system w/no supplied delrin spacer and no problems. The issue I’ve discovered though is when I installed the short stroke piece I found that I could still lock open the bolt.  Since it shouldn’t be able to lock the bolt, this indicates to me that my current extension spacer is fine for use as a 3 stage but too short to work as a true short stroke.  

 

Now, everything I just typed is a liitle irrelevant because I’m awaiting delivery of an A5 extension to install a new and more lightweight buttstock on my PCC which will require a custom spacer regardless.  I of course knew this when I decided to go the A5 route, and I plan to make my own spacer from a delrin rod.  The “first draft” measurements will be done in the garage with quarters to see what length will operate the trigger and eject cases (by hand) and then I’ll cut a few different lengths of spacer to swap in and out at the range in the “final draft” stages when live fire testing.  

 

The info you gave me here will definitely allow me to do the rough draft work at home, so I’m very grateful for that.  Thanks!  

[RaylanGivens]

2 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Now, everything I just typed is a liitle irrelevant because I’m awaiting delivery of an A5 extension to install a new and more lightweight buttstock on my PCC which will require a custom spacer regardless.  I of course knew this when I decided to go the A5 route, and I plan to make my own spacer from a delrin rod.  The “first draft” measurements will be done in the garage with quarters to see what length will operate the trigger and eject cases (by hand) and then I’ll cut a few different lengths of spacer to swap in and out at the range in the “final draft” stages when live fire testing.  

 

 

The A5 receiver extension tube makes it easier to try different buffer systems and configurations...  You are on the right path using quarters to determine the length of your delrin spacers, but be careful if you also use a wave spring with the quarters...  I had a problem where one of the quarters got under the wave spring and bent it...  apparently the quarters can bounce around when you have lots of them...  as you will with the A5 extension tube.

 

I got my delrin rods at Grainger and had to sand the OD down so they would fit inside the extension tube, then cut them with a Mitre saw...  It would be better to make them using a lathe, but...  you use what you have.

 

I started by setting the buffer up so that the bolt would just barely lock back and worked from there... 

[NoKimberDave]

41 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Thanks!  My situation is a little odd because I’m currently using a rifle length extension with a spacer (the TACCOM kit is designed for a carbine length extension) that I’ve set up as a normal 3 stage TACCOM system w/no supplied delrin spacer and no problems. The issue I’ve discovered though is when I installed the short stroke piece I found that I could still lock open the bolt.  Since it shouldn’t be able to lock the bolt, this indicates to me that my current extension spacer is fine for use as a 3 stage but too short to work as a true short stroke.  

 

Now, everything I just typed is a liitle irrelevant because I’m awaiting delivery of an A5 extension to install a new and more lightweight buttstock on my PCC which will require a custom spacer regardless.  I of course knew this when I decided to go the A5 route, and I plan to make my own spacer from a delrin rod.  The “first draft” measurements will be done in the garage with quarters to see what length will operate the trigger and eject cases (by hand) and then I’ll cut a few different lengths of spacer to swap in and out at the range in the “final draft” stages when live fire testing.  

 

The info you gave me here will definitely allow me to do the rough draft work at home, so I’m very grateful for that.  Thanks!  

 

I can still manually lock back the bolt with the Taccom SSK. Just barely.

 

But it doesn’t lock back on its own on an empty mag.

[SJMPCC022]

5 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

I got my delrin rods at Grainger and had to sand the OD down so they would fit inside the extension tube, then cut them with a Mitre saw...  It would be better to make them using a lathe, but...  you use what you have

I would bet dollars to doughnuts the worst part of that process was actually finding the piece of delrin you cut off !

 

If it got bound up in the blade guard on your miter box, all is good!

 

If it cleared the blade guard and bounced off the wall, good luck !

 

FYI, I am guessing you had to buy at least a 3' length, cut another one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[cvincent]

Those of you who are short stroking; how short are you going? For instance, I’m testing right now, and I’m 2 quarters from the trigger not resetting. While zero’ing the gun from a front and rear bag, the gun full auto’d twice. Wasn’t able to duplicate it while shouldered. JuSt wondering what other people are using as a reference of “short stroke”.


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[CalTeacher]

I’m using a Delrin rod cut the the thickness of 4 quarters.  Quarters dish out after a while and I had intermittent reset issues after they took a bit of a beating.  No such issues with the Delrin.

 

I go to where the bolt is just short of being able to lock back.  I want my trigger to reset reliably.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

1 hour ago, cvincent said:

Those of you who are short stroking; how short are you going? For instance, I’m testing right now, and I’m 2 quarters from the trigger not resetting. While zero’ing the gun from a front and rear bag, the gun full auto’d twice. Wasn’t able to duplicate it while shouldered. JuSt wondering what other people are using as a reference of “short stroke”.


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I haven't gone the DIY route, just used the JP short stroke version of their SCS and Taccom's short stroke upgrade on their buffer.  Ran the JP in a GMR-13 at my last match, and it ran great.  Have to test the Taccom setup next.

[cvincent]

 
I haven't gone the DIY route, just used the JP short stroke version of their SCS and Taccom's short stroke upgrade on their buffer.  Ran the JP in a GMR-13 at my last match, and it ran great.  Have to test the Taccom setup next.

How far forward of the bolt catch would you say the bolt is when pulled fully to the rear?


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[cvincent]

I’m using a Delrin rod cut the the thickness of 4 quarters.  Quarters dish out after a while and I had intermittent reset issues after they took a bit of a beating.  No such issues with the Delrin.
 
I go to where the bolt is just short of being able to lock back.  I want my trigger to reset reliably.

I had mine to where the bolt would just lock back. Then adding the quarters, hard to say but looks to be like over a half an inch past the bolt catch. The difference is pretty huge in dot movement.


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[CalTeacher]

10 minutes ago, cvincent said:

 

I had mine to where the bolt would just lock back. Then adding the quarters, hard to say but looks to be like over a half an inch past the bolt catch. The difference is pretty huge in dot movement.


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I’ve cut some thicker pieces of Delrin to try out.  Hoping to get to that tomorrow.  Dot movement is definitely reduced by shortening the stroke.

[SJMPCC022]

10 hours ago, CalTeacher said:

I’ve cut some thicker pieces of Delrin to try out.  Hoping to get to that tomorrow.  Dot movement is definitely reduced by shortening the stroke.

That's good to hear, I just pulled the trigger( that was funny on this forum) on the short stroke kit for my Taccom3 buffer.

 

If it's half as good as everyone says it is it will be 20$ well spent!

 

One question.............I have the bolt weight out now, the recoil was softer this way. Should I expect to be putting it back in ?