Walther Q5 Match with Trijicon RMR, dot is way off

[quiller]

I picked up a Walther Q5 Match for USPSA optics and installed a Trijicon RMR the other evening. I tested the gun before installing the optic and its very accurate with my stance, grip using the iron sight. Also my overall alignment feels very natural and relaxed. However, after installing and zeroing the Trijicon my stance and grip are is all messed up. If I draw the gun and hold in my natural stance the dot is not visible. I need to break both wrists down and to the right to see the dot. In other words the dot is very high and left in my natural stance. It almost feels like I'm holding the gun too high and shooting down! As you can imagine it feels very unnatural and I'm not sure that any amount of practice will make it feel any better.....nor do I think its good practice. By comparison my Open gun with a CMore in my regular stand is very easy and natural to pick up the dot. What did I do wrong on the install? I have read all manner of posts here and elsewhere about co-witnessing iron sight and red dots but can't really see/find a solution. Any Walther Q5 Match/Trijicon RMR owners have any ideas?  

 

For reference this is the optic I have: RM05G: RMR® Dual-Illuminated Sight – 9.0 MOA Green Dot

Edited August 3, 2018 by quiller

[MemphisMechanic]

This is pretty normal for a gun with the dot mounted that high. I shot my Q5 in two matches in CO.

 

Because I don’t want to mess up my ability to draw a gun with irons on it, I’ve got a PPQ slide on it’s way to a machinist to mill my deltapoint pro down into the slide as deeply as he can.

 

[quiller]

9 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

This is pretty normal for a gun with the dot mounted that high. I shot my Q5 in two matches in CO.

 

Because I don’t want to mess up my ability to draw a gun with irons on it, I’ve got a PPQ slide on it’s way to a machinist to mill my deltapoint pro down into the slide as deeply as he can.

 

I was thinking that lowering the optics would help....I really don't want to mill the slide. Optic ready should really be optic ready! I wonder if I could mill enough off the mounting plate. If memory serves me right its fairly thick. As an aside...I played around with a Kimber Aegis Elite (with Vortex) and had not issues with stance....I reckon $300 more for a gun will buy you a "real" optic ready set up....but way short on round count....I guess we can't have it all.

[MemphisMechanic]

I’ve shot an M&P core, Glock MOS, and of course my own Q5 match. In all cases the dot is mounted flush with the top of the slide or even a little proud of it. They’re all very high.

 

On the Q5, I looked into if: you can’t mill much off the mounting plates because they have their own mounting screws to factor in, which are located beneath the optic. Any material removed has to also come off those fastener heads.

 

I agree with you: if only I had known! I’d have a pair of ordinary PPQs. One for production and one that I’d sending in to recess my dot into the slide as a CO gun. I would not have paid extra for the Q5.

 

I’m going to have the shoo mill all the way down until it exposes the striker channel, and the mount my DPP to cover it back up. Then I’m having him carve lightening cuts into the front of the slide. Because sexy. Should be very low, and a very sweet setup.

 

(And yes I have looked: there’s zero sign of contact between striker and the top of it’s channel.)

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[quiller]

6 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I’ve shot an M&P core, Glock MOS, and of course my own Q5 match. In all cases the dot is mounted flush with the top of the slide or even a little proud of it. They’re all very high.

 

On the Q5, I looked into if: you can’t mill much off the mounting plates because they have their own mounting screws to factor in, which are located beneath the optic. Any material removed has to also come off those fastener heads.

 

I agree with you: if only I had known! I’d have a bought a 5” PPQ M2 for production, and the 4” gun that I’m sending in to L&M to recess my dot into the slide as a CO gun.

 

I would not have paid extra for the Q5. Live and learn!

 

I’m going to have him mill all the way down until it exposed the striker’s channel, and the mount my DPP to cover it back up. Then I’m having him  carve lightening cuts into the front of the slide. Should be very low, and a very sweet setup.

 

(And yes I have looked: there’s zero sign of contact between striker and the top of it’s channel.)

 

Ugh....I'd nearly return is all if they'd take it back...but no chance of that happening. I don't have the gun in front of me but I'm assuming you cannot remove the mounting plate and mount the Trijicon directly onto the slide? I understand that some machining would be required, but it is less machining.....is it even possible? One of the guys I shoot with is a machinist with access to a mill so I may be able to get it done locally. Man, that Kimber is looking real good now. The issue other than the round count is you need to turn on the Vortex.....kinda dumb....."see here old chap, kindly be a gentleman and stand still while turn on my red dot....theirs a good fellow"!  

[MemphisMechanic]

I wouldn’t run a dot on a defensive gun, so that’s a moot point for me. Irons are absolutely better and faster for close dirty work. You can see them in your peripheral vision when your eye isn’t behind the gun, for example.

 

But the two machinists I talked to were far more comfortable milling a slide without a “too large” notch already in place.

 

Ideally you size the notch so that the optic is a slight press-fit into the notch. Relieves the stress on the fasteners.

[quiller]

That was more of a knock on Kimber than what I do in reality. My defensive guns are iron sights all day long, every day. I guess I will have to chat my shooting/machinist buddy to see what we can come up with. I think I'll buy the Kimber anyways....just because its such a sweet gun with an even sweeter trigger. I really like my Micro 9....so I'm kinda fond of Kimbers in general. Thanks for the info and happy/safe shooting. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by quiller

[sweatpants]

Late to the party but it sounds like your trained index is incorrect for the Q5/RMR combination.  Practice should help you overcome this if you're interested in overcoming it, some people don't have the patience or tolerance for it.  

[quiller]

1 hour ago, sweatpants said:

Late to the party but it sounds like your trained index is incorrect for the Q5/RMR combination.  Practice should help you overcome this if you're interested in overcoming it, some people don't have the patience or tolerance for it.  

I took off the front sight and all is well. I was trying to co-witness the dot and front sight and it was never going to line up. Thus, it felt like I was pointing down. I spend an afternoon pulling from my holster and aiming at a 1/4 size USPSA target. After a while finding the dot felt more natural. Clearly the overall fell is different than my Open gun, but that's to be expected. I guess I could try installing a taller front sight but I don't see the point in spending the money. Also, the gun is really just a back up for my Open and will only be used a few time in emergence and/or just for fun.

[highhope]

No need for co-witness. Just need to practice practice and master the new index of co, after that it's easy to go back to iron sight or open again. It may takes one month or two. I have been there,  I know how you feel. 

I shoot open/co/production too..

Edited October 2, 2018 by highhope