choosing 1-6 scope help

[NoKimberDave]

I have two scopes I am very happy with. I am just a hobbyist shooter so I am no 3gun pro. But I'm decent enough to know what i want. I went through quite a few optics before settling on these. And got a lot of advice from better shooters.

 

-For my smaller 14.5" SBR rifle I have a Steiner Px4i 1-4x24 

-For my 18" rifle I have a Vortex PST gen 2 1-6x24

 

I am at a point with these that I don't feel anything lacking. I can quit looking for new scopes. They both look sweet through the glass. They both have big enough eye boxes. The reticles are simple and useable. And the only illumination is the center dot, and its daylight bright. The stadia lines are not clunky and the reticles not overly busy.

 

The Steiner is so good I am not sure there is a 1x4 at any price I would replace it with. I'd rather keep the money because it is very satisfying to use, imo. Man, did they ever hit a walk off, bench clearing home run with that scope. For the money it slaughters, slaughters, anything I have used (haven't used it all of course). I know there are better, but they cost a lot more. TonytheTiger has it right: its a mini Razor.

 

The PST 1-6 is also hard or near impossible to beat for the money. It's a great scope. If I ever start swimming in money I'd replace it with a Razor. Probably wouldn't help all that much, and it's really not that much better. But, it is better.

If I had 1500$ to throw at it, I would get the Razor and nice mount for it. Just my opinion.

 

Of course, P.E.Kelley will likely beat most of us with open sights on an M&P Sport, heh.

 

 

[1911vm]

so what you are saying  Steiner P4XI  +  3K rounds of .223 =  Razor 1-6

[P.E. Kelley]

3 minutes ago, 1911vm said:

so what you are saying  Steiner P4XI  +  3K rounds of .223 =  Razor 1-6

That is a good choice!  I am a Burris man so I would go with the RT-6 or XTR2 1x5, but that Steiner is solid!

[1911vm]

Just looked at Burris I have to admit that I like the Burris reticle much better than  Steiner its almost like a eotech  . Is the glass in the Burris as good as the Steiner ?

[jkrispies]

4 hours ago, 1911vm said:

Just looked at Burris I have to admit that I like the Burris reticle much better than  Steiner its almost like a eotech  . Is the glass in the Burris as good as the Steiner ?

I’ve never compared to a Steiner, but I can attest that the Burris glass is excellent.  The reticle is very nice as well, though it could be a bit more daylight bright... unless that’s something that’s been improved recently.  

Edited August 10, 2018 by jkrispies

[12glocks]

I would take a close look at your drops on Strelok for whatever you buy.  I think the JM reticle works well with a really fast load like MK 262 Mod 1.  I have the MOA reticle on my Razor and it works well with a traditional match load like a 75/77 at 2550-2650.  In the southeast we routinely shoot out beyond 300,  out to 4-500 with regularity, and I would never consider 4x, not when there are such awesome 1-6x optics out there, unless weight was a MAJOR consideration (like for a run and gun).

[TalkingMonkey]

20 hours ago, NoKimberDave said:

I have two scopes I am very happy with. I am just a hobbyist shooter so I am no 3gun pro. But I'm decent enough to know what i want. I went through quite a few optics before settling on these. And got a lot of advice from better shooters.

 

-For my smaller 14.5" SBR rifle I have a Steiner Px4i 1-4x24 

-For my 18" rifle I have a Vortex PST gen 2 1-6x24

 

I am at a point with these that I don't feel anything lacking. I can quit looking for new scopes. They both look sweet through the glass. They both have big enough eye boxes. The reticles are simple and useable. And the only illumination is the center dot, and its daylight bright. The stadia lines are not clunky and the reticles not overly busy.

 

The Steiner is so good I am not sure there is a 1x4 at any price I would replace it with. I'd rather keep the money because it is very satisfying to use, imo. Man, did they ever hit a walk off, bench clearing home run with that scope. For the money it slaughters, slaughters, anything I have used (haven't used it all of course). I know there are better, but they cost a lot more. TonytheTiger has it right: its a mini Razor.

 

The PST 1-6 is also hard or near impossible to beat for the money. It's a great scope. If I ever start swimming in money I'd replace it with a Razor. Probably wouldn't help all that much, and it's really not that much better. But, it is better.

If I had 1500$ to throw at it, I would get the Razor and nice mount for it. Just my opinion.

 

Of course, P.E.Kelley will likely beat most of us with open sights on an M&P Sport, heh.

 

 

 

Can you compare and contrast these two scopes?  How do the glass, reticle, and eyeboxes compare?  Let's assume the price is equal - is it safe to assume you would go with the PST Gen II?

[NoKimberDave]

1 hour ago, TalkingMonkey said:

 

Can you compare and contrast these two scopes?  How do the glass, reticle, and eyeboxes compare?  Let's assume the price is equal - is it safe to assume you would go with the PST Gen II?

 

Well, honestly I like them about equally. The glass is very good on both, although the Steiner might have a very slight edge. I believe its german schott glass. But very bright image in both. On 1x eye box feels similar (which is where both scopes live 90% of the time). The vortex gets a little tighter at high mag, but it has 2X more power. Both have a daylight bright dot. I like both reticles, as I have come to detest busy, clunky reticles.

But I do slightly prefer the simple Steiner BDC reticle. If Steiner was to make an 1-6x24 just like the Px4i but with 2 more power I would buy that to replace the Vortex. But not sure I would gain anything as the Vortex is very very nice.

The Steiner feels a lot lighter, if that is a concern. The Vortex is a tank. I got the steiner with aluminum throw lever for 459$ which is sweet.

 

Hard to give a direct answer as to which I would take because they are both perfect for the rifles they are on. Hard to go wrong with either.  

 

[emjbe]

I have the Vortex 1-6x ii-e (VMR2-MOA), the Leupold VX-6HD Multigun (CM-R2), and the Steiner Px4i.  Here's my thoughts after using all of them in our local multigun and black rifle matches:

 

VX-6: Had this one the longest.  So far neither the Vortex or the Steiner has been better.  

Bad - It has only 2 faults:

1. not daylight bright dot
2. built-in throw lever.

I lost two of the standard throw levers on that scope ... and they were torqued on.  We use dump barrels in matches and I saw the second lever in my go-pro video on the ground the week before SMM3G. It hit the side of the barrel and came off.  I bought a switchview and solved that problem.  I will say that you could go without a level like some of the USAMU team and be just fine - the zoom knob is smooth on that scope. Not really a negative vs the others because you'll still pay more for a throw lever.

CMR2 is not Daylight bright ... so I just leave it turned off when shooting.  I did use it one time when we had an overcast day and it was nice.  I asked one of the national champions here that is sponsored by Leupold about this - he was using an older VX-6. He said he never found illumination to help beyond 50 yards and the more I have used a dot, I agree.  After turning on the dot on the vortex to full power and trying to shoot a 6" plate at 380 yards and not being able to see the target through the red dot, I realize he was right.  The dot is nice in close range blasting, but not a necessity.

If Leupold were to offer a daylight bright reticle for this scope, it would be the perfect 3gun scope. I'd probably only use illumination on close blaster stages, but it would be nice to have.

 

Good

1. Weight - best by far in this class
2. Eyebox - best by far ... it's noticeably better than the Vortex. I have more motion side-to-side and can get closer to the scope without a tunnel vision
3. Turrets - I like being able to use these. I can change zero for my two loads and they lock in place
4. Reticle - this is the ideal 3gun reticle. It matches my long distance ammo nearly perfectly and I REALLY like the numbers next to the hash showing distance.  The circle makes it easy to see paper and close-in targets - not as well as a red dot, but still pretty good.
5. Auto-off time/auto-on motion reticle illumination ... even though I don't use the illumination, I turn it on before storing it just in case I need it at night.  Every scope and red dot should have this feature.

 

Vortex 

Love this scope also ... just the standard 3 things that you already know as negative: weight, weight, and weight.

I bought this because every forum and review said it had the biggest eye box, but that isn't the case for me.  It's big enough for 3 gun - I've shot this in 3 multigun and 2 black rifle matches and haven't had any problem finding the targets due to eye box blacking out on me.  

Red Dot is very nice - makes it easier to call your shots on close paper when you are going fast.

I got the VMR2-MOA only because the reticle matched nearly perfect with my loads - the first hash is 310, 2nd is 400, 3rd is 495 ... so 300, 400, 500 easy. 

In the match yesterday I actually forgot to turn the dot on for the stages with long range targets and didn't feel like it was slower. In fact, one of the stages had 9 IPSC paper and it was easy to call shots ... the red dot would have helped but it didn't slow me down.

 

Steiner

Great glass - almost as good as the two above. Price is the best reason for this scope - low enough price and good enough glass.  It has daylight bright dot. The reticle is great although doesn't match my long distance loads perfectly, it's close enough to get on target.  Weight is good enough also.

I used this for a 3gun and a black rifle late last year.  It was fine on the 3gun stages out to 300-400 yards with bigger targets.  The black rifle match had a dark blue painted target in front of some green bushes and I just couldn't pick out the steel at 4x.  It worked great for the black silhouettes and plates at about 200 yards.  

 

Someone else mentioned the c-more scope with the discount code.  That's probably the best deal I've seen. I haven't shot the scope in a match, but I spent some time dry-firing it. The guy who showed it to me unapologetically calls himself a "glass snob" and uses Swaros and every other good scope you can imagine.  He told me the C-More glass is as good as Swaro.  If the TJ reticle worked better with my load I would have bought that instead of the vortex and saved $500. If you run a 55g bullet it's a very good option for the price. I'd still like to get one of these ... maybe some day.

 

If I had to go with 1 scope, it would be the VX-6. Eyebox is the single most important factor for me and that one wins.  weight is my second criteria and it wins there.  If there were a daylight bright dot in the middle of that CMR2 reticle, it would be perfect for 3gun.

 

 

 

[emjbe]

On 8/10/2018 at 4:53 AM, 12glocks said:

I would take a close look at your drops on Strelok for whatever you buy.  I think the JM reticle works well with a really fast load like MK 262 Mod 1.  I have the MOA reticle on my Razor and it works well with a traditional match load like a 75/77 at 2550-2650.  In the southeast we routinely shoot out beyond 300,  out to 4-500 with regularity, and I would never consider 4x, not when there are such awesome 1-6x optics out there, unless weight was a MAJOR consideration (like for a run and gun).

 

+1 for the advice on using Strelok.  Put in your load and see exactly what it will look like on any reticle.  Your 75/77 load must be similar to mine - that VMR-MOA reticle was very close, but I had to change my zero to get it right on.  My Vortex is zeroed at 150 yards which puts me within 2" from 10 yards to 200 yards.  After that the hashes line up within 15 yards of 300/400/500.

 

For me the 1-4x is more about the size of the target and the contrast. I found 1-4x to be fine even to 545 yards when it was a black target with a white backer.  when the target didn't contrast with the background it was harder to see on 4x.

[emjbe]

On 8/10/2018 at 8:23 AM, NoKimberDave said:

 

Well, honestly I like them about equally. The glass is very good on both, although the Steiner might have a very slight edge. I believe its german schott glass. But very bright image in both. On 1x eye box feels similar (which is where both scopes live 90% of the time). The vortex gets a little tighter at high mag, but it has 2X more power. Both have a daylight bright dot. I like both reticles, as I have come to detest busy, clunky reticles.

But I do slightly prefer the simple Steiner BDC reticle. If Steiner was to make an 1-6x24 just like the Px4i but with 2 more power I would buy that to replace the Vortex. But not sure I would gain anything as the Vortex is very very nice.

The Steiner feels a lot lighter, if that is a concern. The Vortex is a tank. I got the steiner with aluminum throw lever for 459$ which is sweet.

 

Hard to give a direct answer as to which I would take because they are both perfect for the rifles they are on. Hard to go wrong with either.  

 

 

 

+1 - my Steiner is on the 14.5" light rifle and it fits the function perfectly - I don't think I'd put the vortex on that gun.

My VX-6 is also on a 14.5 rifle and it works great - this is my go-to rifle and can do anything. 

Vortex is on the heavier 18" rifle - slightly better at long range and glass fits the function of that rifle 

 

To add one thought on this comparison - In my opinion the C-More would be better glass and less weight than the PST if you can get the discount so they are about the same price.  Check the reticle though ... that TJ reticle is great for 55g 3100fps, but the numbers on strelok weren't at all close for a 69g-77g match load @2500-2600fps.

 

[12glocks]

7 hours ago, emjbe said:

For me the 1-4x is more about the size of the target and the contrast. I found 1-4x to be fine even to 545 yards when it was a black target with a white backer.  when the target didn't contrast with the background it was harder to see on 4x.

 

For me it depends when you shoot a target.  If you are the first of the day and the targets are all painted, a 4x would probably be fine.  But if it is near twilight, the targets are shot to hell and maybe in the shadows, I found 6x to be advantages.  Owning a Razor its kind of hard to go backwards quality wise.  I have considered the 1-6 PST for a backup rifle.

[SlvrDragon50]

Awesome review emjbe, thanks. Didn't have the Leupold on my radar before, but I'll keep an eye for it. Also the C-More.

 

A guy had a Swaro yesterday that I should have asked to take a look through. Kinda regret it now.

[Boudreaux78]

I love my Leopold 1X6 3-gun model. It is crystal clear and it works perfect on my gun. I can hit out to 600 yards with very little effort. Amazing scope!!!

[L3324temp]

 

If I had to go with 1 scope, it would be the VX-6. Eyebox is the single most important factor for me and that one wins.  weight is my second criteria and it wins there.  If there were a daylight bright dot in the middle of that CMR2 reticle, it would be perfect for 3gun.

 

 

 I bought this scope at a major discount. Is is nearly perfect except for brightness. I would happily pay 2x MSRP if they could double the brightness.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Shooter116]

The Vortex Razor  is awesome but a little heavy. You might be able to find a Swarovski z6i used for around that price now that the 1-8 is out. I love mine. 

[emjbe]

On 8/20/2018 at 5:26 PM, L3324temp said:

 

 I bought this scope at a major discount. Is is nearly perfect except for brightness. I would happily pay 2x MSRP if they could double the brightness.

 

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I agree - great 3gun scope. Perfect if it had a  daylight bright dot right in the middle (@Leupold - if you are listening I'd prefer just the center dot not the entire horseshoe).  

 

Is that discount still available somewhere?  I've seriously been considering getting a 2nd VX6

[L3324temp]

Not that I have seen. It was around Black Friday before the next gen model was due.


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[SlvrDragon50]

I might have to get an Atibal LVPO to hold me over until I can afford a VX6 or Razor or other high dollar scope. I just hate buying a cheaper scope knowing I will eventually move to a top dollar one anyways.

[Steve RA]

I've got an Atibal 1X8 and while it isn't as good as some of the others mentioned above, it seems to work pretty well.  You can usually sell a good brand scope without too much of a loss if and when you decide to upgrade.  A lot of that depends on whether you bought it "right" or not.

[Garmil]

I like my Razor but still want to try out the Cmore C3 at some point.

[SlvrDragon50]

37 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

I've got an Atibal 1X8 and while it isn't as good as some of the others mentioned above, it seems to work pretty well.  You can usually sell a good brand scope without too much of a loss if and when you decide to upgrade.  A lot of that depends on whether you bought it "right" or not.

Are you using the XP8? I wasn't sure whether to go XP6 or XP8. Seems like the XP6 has better glass, but you don't have as much magnification power either. A local shooter had a Swaro that I really should have asked to look through so I can see what good glass looks like.

 

Might just have to go to the local Dick's and take a look through all their scopes. The Cmore C3 looked great too but I don't think I'll ever see one of those in person.

Edited August 25, 2018 by SlvrDragon50

[Steve RA]

Yes, it's an XP8.  The only thing I'm not wild about is the eye relief shortens up a little between 6 to 8 power.  Not a real big change and doesn't seem to have any detrimental effects on accuracy.  I like it OK and it works well at the range.

[SlvrDragon50]

2 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Yes, it's an XP8.  The only thing I'm not wild about is the eye relief shortens up a little between 6 to 8 power.  Not a real big change and doesn't seem to have any detrimental effects on accuracy.  I like it OK and it works well at the range.

Awesome, thanks so much. I'm still not sure if I want to go SFP or FFP. I see merits of both arguments. Wish I had more money so I could just buy it all! 

 

I'll have to delay my purchase to next month as I spent this past month's extra money on a years worth of reloading supplies  

[Steve RA]

Wise investment!  I've had both and I'd recommend SFP, but you'll have to make your own choice.  I'd try to find both to look thru before you make a final decision.