Humor Me Please: Silly Glock Build?

[thegeneric]

So they're making Glock slides out of titanium now....

 

This is just a discussion on my attempt to build the fastest cycling, flattest shooting Glock possible with zero expectations for longevity/consistency in reliability. Can you double check my logic and point out any issues I am neglecting?

 

Glock 19: Because the shorter/smaller slide results in a shorter overall stroke

Titanium Slide: Because dramatic decrease in weight increases velocity, requires heavier recoil spring to increase velocity/force of return stroke 

Ported Barrel: Lonewolf/glock oem/MagnaPort style "C" ports to aid a bit in muzzle rise reduction, decreases rearward pressure/velocity

Compensator: Carver 2-3-4 port? Continuation of keeping muzzle rise to a minimum, side ports stabilizes the gun, decreases rearward pressure/velocity

Ported Barrel AND Compensator Combo: downwards forces are more spread out across the length of the barrel instead on just as the muzzle

Tungsten Guide Rod/Competition Magwell/Frame Weight: Increase weight of frame as much as possible to absorb impact of slide/other recoil forces

Frame "Shock Buff": absorbs some impact from slide/frame due to higher velocities 

Increased Power Magazine Springs: brings the next round up faster for the faster velocities of the slide

Optics (not super relevant): SJC/Carver Frame mounted Micro Red Dot, so the optic doesn't move with the slide/fastest target acquisition 

 

 

Basically maximum porting and maximum slide weight reduction. Where do I hit a point of diminishing returns (muzzle dipping/catastrophic failure)? Does the decreased rearward pressure from the porting/compensation require a recoil spring rate that is too low to return the lightened slide forward with enough force? What characteristics should the 9mm load have to potentially run this setup? What possible spring weights would make this run? Does the physics work?

 

There might not be a purpose for this build except for the abundance(affordability) of aftermarket Glock parts, excess of time/"fun" money, and my irrational need to be "different".

 

Thank you in advance for any help/insights ya'll might have and again, thanks for humoring me!

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by thegeneric

[Solvability]

I question the premise of a shorter stroke on the 19vs 17 vs 34  - I think the stroke is the same - no? 

[thegeneric]

4 minutes ago, Solvability said:

I question the premise of a shorter stroke on the 19vs 17 vs 34  - I think the stroke is the same - no? 

Good point, this might just be from stock compact Glocks being higher sprung, theremight be no difference in actual travel, I don't currently own a compact Glock to confirm. 

[TRPOperator]

I believe Solvability is right. The stroke is the same. but running a G19 will be lighter as its shorter than a G17. So then with a lightened slide in a G19 that should give you a faster cycle time in theory. 

[yigal]

put STI  dvc slide  on your glock  and this will solve all problems.

[Solvability]

2 hours ago, TRPOperator said:

I believe Solvability is right. The stroke is the same. but running a G19 will be lighter as its shorter than a G17. So then with a lightened slide in a G19 that should give you a faster cycle time in theory. 

 

2 hours ago, TRPOperator said:

I believe Solvability is right. The stroke is the same. but running a G19 will be lighter as its shorter than a G17. So then with a lightened slide in a G19 that should give you a faster cycle time in theory. 

I agree, the shorter lighter slide is valid.

[Open1215]

I think this sounds fun. Really really fun! It will be a super light gun, with that being said... 9 major out of a polymer gun is a bit harsh. The steel guns shoot softer due to the weight and the distribution of the weight in proportion to the cycling mass. Having a super heavy magwell, heavy guide rod, thumb rest and super light slide may help to offset some of this but I would imagine it would still have some kick to it. I can't wait to hear more about it and see how it looks/runs! 9 major may work great, it may be better off as a steel gun. Either way if you can keep the muzzle down the traditions will be super quick! I've wanted to do a g19 open build for some time now. I was really looking at the 19x before it came out and I saw it was a 2 pin not 3 pin frame.

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[Fo0]

Humor Me Please: Silly Glock Build?

 

put a brazos slide racker and scallop swoop rear of the slide

 

 

[TRPOperator]

DC Precision is doing some really cool stuff on Glocks..I know you want to build your own, but might give you some ideas. To help with weights and lighter slides, mounts etc

Edited August 1, 2018 by TRPOperator

[theWacoKid]

There are some interesting thoughts flying around here. I'll only address the theory of side ports and lateral forces stabilizing the gun and say that an even balance of forces acting on a body in some axis nets zero force in that axis and therefore is no different than applying no forces at all. 

[thegeneric]

2 hours ago, theWacoKid said:

There are some interesting thoughts flying around here. I'll only address the theory of side ports and lateral forces stabilizing the gun and say that an even balance of forces acting on a body in some axis nets zero force in that axis and therefore is no different than applying no forces at all. 

That makes sense to me. It also has me thinking about common ar15 brake designs. Do the side ports simply provide an escape path for the additional gasses that should not be directed upwards (because if a brake only had ports on top the barrel would dip)?

[thegeneric]

7 hours ago, Open1215 said:

I think this sounds fun. Really really fun! It will be a super light gun, with that being said... 9 major out of a polymer gun is a bit harsh. The steel guns shoot softer due to the weight and the distribution of the weight in proportion to the cycling mass. Having a super heavy magwell, heavy guide rod, thumb rest and super light slide may help to offset some of this but I would imagine it would still have some kick to it. I can't wait to hear more about it and see how it looks/runs! 9 major may work great, it may be better off as a steel gun. Either way if you can keep the muzzle down the traditions will be super quick! I've wanted to do a g19 open build for some time now. I was really looking at the 19x before it came out and I saw it was a 2 pin not 3 pin frame.

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Thanks! Do you think this setup lends itself to 9mm major? I would need more pressure to work a higher spring rate and account for lost pressure via portig/comp?

 

[thegeneric]

2 hours ago, TRPOperator said:

DC Precision is doing some really cool stuff on Glocks..I know you want to build your own, but might give you some ideas. To help with weights and lighter slides, mounts etc

I saw that build, looks great. Thanks for the reminder of the resource. 

[MemphisMechanic]

3 hours ago, thegeneric said:

That makes sense to me. It also has me thinking about common ar15 brake designs. Do the side ports simply provide an escape path for the additional gasses that should not be directed upwards (because if a brake only had ports on top the barrel would dip)?

The rearmost top ports are easy to understand: They vent gas directly upward - push the barrel down with a small jet of high pressure gas.

 

The side ports aren’t really ‘ports’ at all: what happens is that the gas expands to fill that chamber as it follows the bullet forward at several hundred MPH... and disperses it’s force against the large flat surface which is the front of that chamber. Effectively pushing the gun *forward* as it hits the far wall of the chamber.

 

Because you’re now working with higher volume and lower pressure, the sides of this chamber have been milled away to allow the gas to escape. The sides don’t do anything anyway.

[theWacoKid]

8 hours ago, thegeneric said:

That makes sense to me. It also has me thinking about common ar15 brake designs. Do the side ports simply provide an escape path for the additional gasses that should not be directed upwards (because if a brake only had ports on top the barrel would dip)?

 

There can be forward braking force generated by side ports in a muzzle device which is a different concept. 

[MemphisMechanic]

54 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

There can be forward braking force generated by side ports in a muzzle device which is a different concept. 

 

Correct. There are brakes like the one on a Barrett .50BMG rifle which specifically exhaust gasses backwards at a 45* angle.

 

We’re not talking about that style in this case because he wasn’t asking about them, but they certainly exist. 

[Nathanb]

This is in the same vein as a Roland special. The problem comes getting them to run. Short barrels and 9mm make it hard to work the comp.  you’ll spend time playing with recoil springs and striker spring combos to get it to run right. 

[kneelingatlas]

That certainly is a silly build.

 

According to this, the Ti slide is under 7oz, I've found my best shooting 9 major slides weigh around 10oz

 

[theWacoKid]

20 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

That certainly is a silly build.

 

According to this, the Ti slide is under 7oz, I've found my best shooting 9 major slides weigh around 10oz

 

 

 

10 oz. assembled or bare?

[thegeneric]

25 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

That certainly is a silly build.

 

According to this, the Ti slide is under 7oz, I've found my best shooting 9 major slides weigh around 10oz

 

Can you describe what characteristics make the 10oz the best shooting for you? Why do they shoot worse when you lose more weight than that? Genuine questions, not  trying to be adversarial.

[thegeneric]

43 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

This is in the same vein as a Roland special. The problem comes getting them to run. Short barrels and 9mm make it hard to work the comp.  you’ll spend time playing with recoil springs and striker spring combos to get it to run right. 

I am accepting of that part of the "build". This exercise in "extremes" is just for fun! I've shot as fast as .08/.09 splits with a Glock 19c (maybe it was my Jericho 941?) and I am looking for more efficient ways to waste ammo. I carry a bone stock Gen 1 Glock 17 (with fresh OEM weight springs) and shoot a 34 MOS with not much more than polished internals. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by thegeneric

[kneelingatlas]

3 hours ago, theWacoKid said:

 

10 oz. assembled or bare?

 

Complete, including racker and reverse plug

[kneelingatlas]

2 hours ago, thegeneric said:

Can you describe what characteristics make the 10oz the best shooting for you? Why do they shoot worse when you lose more weight than that? Genuine questions, not  trying to be adversarial.

 

The recoil impulse gets pretty nasty, causing wrist pain, it's also hard on the slide and barrel lugs.  I shot 100 rounds of 9 major out of a one lug compact Tanfoglio slide with a 4" barrel and shreadded the barrel lug.

 

I'm not telling you a full sized Open gun is the only was to go, I certainly enjoy my mid and short guns, I'm just saying 7oz sounds awfully light for a 9 major slide.  If I we're going to build a Ti slide open gun, it would be of G17 length or longer.  A metal frame would also help, there are companies making them for Glock right?

[CodeSlinger]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 12:01 PM, TRPOperator said:

running a G19 will be lighter as its shorter than a G17

 

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 2:23 PM, Solvability said:

I agree, the shorter lighter slide is valid.

 

Not as much as I expected.  Krytos specs 6.4oz for the 19 slide, 6.7oz for the 17.

 

I could lose .3oz from my slide just by cleaning it...

[Open1215]

Metal frames for glock is cig race frames. Run w a steel rod and it WILL shear lugs. They recommend factory rod for flex. Dvd is also out if business.

 
The recoil impulse gets pretty nasty, causing wrist pain, it's also hard on the slide and barrel lugs.  I shot 100 rounds of 9 major out of a one lug compact Tanfoglio slide with a 4" barrel and shreadded the barrel lug.
 
I'm not telling you a full sized Open gun is the only was to go, I certainly enjoy my mid and short guns, I'm just saying 7oz sounds awfully light for a 9 major slide.  If I we're going to build a Ti slide open gun, it would be of G17 length or longer.  A metal frame would also help, there are companies making them for Glock right?

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