IYAOYAS Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Has anyone received their awards from this match? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 My daughter Jill was told she would receive a plaque for finishing top Junior. I waited until about a week ago, then sent a polite email to all three of the contact people at COPS to inquire about her plaque. I have received no response. This is a big deal to a 13-year-old. So I really hope they take care of it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 The Steel match screw up and a tight budget are making me think twice about the Fall classic, just may have to skip that trip Hard for a club to get over bad management at a match.. FWIW Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 The Steel match screw up and a tight budget are making me think twice about the Fall classic, just may have to skip that trip Hard for a club to get over bad management at a match.. FWIW Hopalong <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That feeling is understandable, Sam. However, I really think they realize their FUBAR and do plan to get their $H!T together for the Fall Classic. Should the Fall Classic turn out like the Steel match, I would think they can kiss hosting any anything larger than monthly club matches goodbye. It is a great club and they continue to make improvements on the range. I was there today at the club match and they have added a large covered port on rifle range with a concrete pad and concrete shooting benches. Unfortunately I won't be at the Fall Classic this year with the later date change. It clashes with my yearly CO trip in search of the illusive elk. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 ...they continue to make improvements on the range. I was there today at the club match and they have added a large covered port on rifle range with a concrete pad and concrete shooting benches. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How heartwarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYAOYAS Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 I think adding all those upgrades before taking care of their fubar shows a total disregard to the shooters. I really do not care how they spend the money they took in from the match. To keep bringing up that its a"great club" and what upgrades they have made to the range is just wrong! I also received a letter with 20 Cops bucks to be used for any local match fee. How many of the out of state shooters are going to drive 11 hours and spend over 1000.00 in hotel bills, gas,ammo and time off work and entry fees for 20.00 off an entry fee? I also really loved the part in the letter that stated that they spent 500.00 for someone to call and write vendors for the prizes. Get your money back. But if you do the math 55 paid entries at 165.00 a piece is 9075.00 subtract 500.00 is 8575.00 so we can't buy awards with that . I think the way this whole thing has been handled just shows what a bunch of clowns are running the club. New flash its not getting any better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Carmoney says: How heartwarming. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, not really, but until this match there didn't seem to be complaints about the club or how things were run and most folks seemed glad with the improvements. I agree it was a totally rotten deal dealt the participants and it should have been addressed and corrected long ago. A cash payback may have been an alternative to the lack of a prize table but that should have been handled before everyone left. Same with plaques, it's not that difficult to at least have them on hand for most of the folks that had them coming. For most of us, a plaque is another thing to collect dust. But for new and junior shooters it is a source of pride and a re-enforcement of their practice and progress. Just as it was to all of us when we started. They especially shouldn't have been slighted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IYAOYAS says: I think adding all those upgrades before taking care of their fubar shows a total disregard to the shooters. I really do not care how they spend the money they took in from the match. To keep bringing up that its a"great club" and what upgrades they have made to the range is just wrong! I also received a letter with 20 Cops bucks to be used for any local match fee. How many of the out of state shooters are going to drive 11 hours and spend over 1000.00 in hotel bills, gas,ammo and time off work and entry fees for 20.00 off an entry fee? I also really loved the part in the letter that stated that they spent 500.00 for someone to call and write vendors for the prizes. Get your money back. But if you do the math 55 paid entries at 165.00 a piece is 9075.00 subtract 500.00 is 8575.00 so we can't buy awards with that . I think the way this whole thing has been handled just shows what a bunch of clowns are running the club. New flash its not getting any better! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know about total disregard but I agree it is a poor choice in priorites. And stating what is (or was?) a "great club" one time doesn't justify "To keep bringing it up" which indicates plural. $20 is a slight compensation although I have gotten less at major matches before. I have my share of Sierra bullet mats and keychains. You must stay in fancy hotels and drive a vehicle that gets poor mileage if it costs you over $1000 to attend a small 1.5 day match like this. I spent a week at the Nationals last year and didn't spend half that much, including the entry fee. While we are doing the math,- the entry fee was $50 and $30 for under 21, (not $165) so I doubt 55 shooters amounted to $9075 like you seem to have envisioned. Still the amount taken in, even after expenses, should have been appropriated to prizes and plaques. That is a known part of holding such a match. If the ability to procure donated prizes was shy of the number of participants, prizes should have been purchased to make up for the shortage. Or, as previously mentioned, work a cash payback in with the prizes. And if last minute entries (I was told there were several) caused a shortage in the plaques, mail them out later when they are finished. This is nothing out of the ordinary at most of the matches I have been to. Sam and Mike, I know you have both been to the Fall Classic before and I think you felt it was worth the trip. However I know one incident can ruin a reputation that takes a long time (if ever) to repair. Hope things get corrected soon to work back at regaining your trust. I would like to shoot with you guys on a wheel gun squad sometime. IYAOYAS- Since you remain anonymous in your profile, I don't know if this is the only match you have ever attended at COPS or if you have been there before. But this match and the way it was handled was not the way things are usually handled at COPS. I am not part of the management and have no input as to how things are run. It's just the closest range to where I live that I can shoot some fun matches at. Been doing it for about 10 years now. I have forwarded the link to this post to the club officers FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Spd522, I agree with all your points. I really enjoy going down to Rolla and shooting their matches. I havent been able to make it to a Fall Classic yet, and wont this year due to my work schedule. I wont speak for Mike or Sam, but Mike and I have been travelling to matches over the US since '93, (not including Mike's forced hiatus during Law school). We have observed and participated in many different shooting matches, but most of them were Bowling Pin matches. Thanks to some unscrupulous match directors who either by apathy, greed, or indifference there are really no Pin Shoots anymore. Some would say because no one would show up, but the real reason is that no one would show up due to how the matches were run, organized, and how the prize distribution was handled. Shooters are really motivated by customer service from the match. If they think, or know that they are getting screwed, they will not come back, period! People have different motivations for going to a match. If they, and I mean all the shooters, from the last place finisher to the top contenders have a enjoyable experience then they will come back. This match was the first Father/Daughter match for them, and it was a memorable event for his daughter, having won the Junior title. However, I do have a BS radar that works full time and undoubtedly we shooters got the raw end of the stick at this year's Steel match. I along with some others expressed our discontent calmly through email and received an apology along with a $20 certificate for future match use. I tore mine up because I didnt want a refund, I just wanted them to understand from a consumer's point of view some shortcomings. Being a match director myself, I just want well run matches to go to. I am completely satisfied with their comments, how they handled it, and I will be back to shoot at their matches again in the future. Mike is however completely entitled to his opinion that it doesnt make any sense for them to not take care of the obligations that they stated that they were going to do, made a big error, apologize and try to make amends, and then still not follow through with what they said they were going to do. I understand that they put a lot of money into range improvements, and that is why they have one of the best ranges I have been to. But on the otherhand if shooters are not happy how they "Perceive" how they were treated then they aint coming back.........It didnt help that I heard from a shooter from the Rolla area at Nationals that they are considering not having a steel match next year due to decreased participation and the problems they had this year. They have shown that they know how to put on stellar matches, and I am sure they will to a great job with the Fall Classic. If I can get away from work I will get down there to shoot it. Unfortunately it will take other people some time to get over their negative impressions. I am in no way am bashing the COPS club, but I will state the facts so people can get an accurate depiction of why customers(shooters) are dissatisfied. If this makes me unpopular with some, so be it. I am a cop, I am used to it. To make light of it does a disservice to the shooters who are legitmately upset. I personally believe it to be an abberation and look forward to the future matches at COPS living up to their Stellar reputation. Respectfully, Doug Carden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 UPDATE: After another email from me inquiring on the status of my unanswered email a week ago, today I did receive a response from the club secretary. He says he thought the club president had sent the order on to the plaque supplier, along with the recipients' addresses so the plaques could be mailed out directly. He asked the club president to follow up and let me know. So that's where it stands for now. I'll post again when I hear back from them. Personally, and for the record: I accepted the apologies that were eventually extended by the club officers following the match and its unhappy aftermath. I believed (and still do believe) those apologies were genuine. In fact, I went ahead and sent in Fall Classic entry forms for Sam and me without cashing in the "cops bucks" that were mailed out, so we will definitely be there to shoot. Last year's Fall Classic was a superb match all around, and I expect to have a great time again in Rolla this October. But I do expect the club to follow through on the promise to get the plaques made and mailed out--that was part of the deal, after all. And I remain hopeful that it will be handled somewhat promptly. The rest of it is water under the bridge. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Mike, how do I get an entry form?? I dont see anything on their site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock27 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I also really loved the part in the letter that stated that they spent 500.00 for someone to call and write vendors for the prizes.Get your money back. But if you do the math 55 paid entries at 165.00 a piece is 9075.00 subtract 500.00 is 8575.00 so we can't buy awards with that . I think the way this whole thing has been handled just shows what a bunch of clowns are running the club. New flash its not getting any better! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where do I start? Your figures are way off.......the Entry Fee was $50 / $30 for Juniors. If we had an extra $115 per shooter....we could have bought a hell of a prize table. We didn't charge most of the RO's....most of them were locals who worked hard to clean up the range. We had ~54 shooters and 40 of those paid. 40 * $50 = $2,000. Below is a quick rundown of the expenses. $175 Score Sheets. $800 16 motel nights @ $50. $100 100 cans of paint. $90 6 porta poty pump outs @ $15 each $120 Dumpster rental. $200 Plaques $200 Microsoft Access for Match Computer $1685 Expenses. So...we'll clear ~$300. The $500 fee for our Prize coordinator paid for 1.) Cell Phone package 2.) Postage for mailings 3.) SHOT show motel. If someone will volunteer to take over that job (soliciting FREE items for the prize table)...we have an opening. I don't know the status of the Plaques....I'll contact Emanuel. I do know he was busy with the Nationals and is getting ready for the World Shoot. I take full responsibility for the Plaques not being ordered on time.....but lets get the numbers straight.....we worked our butts off getting the range in shape and had twelve (12) stages of steel to shoot for $50. Bob Delp bob.delp@teamorb.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Mike, how do I get an entry form??I dont see anything on their site <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dan, PM me with your email address and I will forward an entry to you. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYAOYAS Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Well I have a cancled check here for 165.00 from Cops so thats what I went by.I shoot several National and State championship matches so if i was wrong on the price .I'll send you 20.00 smuck bucks for your trouble. But I did get a responce from the match director that has not responded to any of my polite e-mails. As far as logging it would have been a 1.5 day match but we stayed for the prize table and had to stay a extra night for nothing. That would not have been bad except for asking the match staff if the awards and prize table was going to happen at 1030 that morning .We were told that yes everything is fine so we stayed .There is another night with meals and another day from work. But your all correct its over a done deal. But actions speak louder than words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks Craig, Carmoney already sent me one. Hope to see some new faces!!! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock27 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 The Plaques will ship before Emanuel leaves for the World Shoot on August 18th. It seems that my new ISP didn’t play nice with my old ISP’s email account and was bouncing the email sent through rollanet without informing me. Our website now has my correct address. Once again I assumed that all had been taken care of....but it wasn’t. Again, my fault. Bob Delp bob.delp@teamorb.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azone41 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Hey IYAOYAS Are you a ammo troop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Bob, thank you for the follow-up. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock27 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Delp’s Comedy of Errors or How To Screw Up A Perfectly Good Match. 1.) Change Prize Coordinators. Chris Thomas handled all aspects of soliciting prize tables for COPS for several years. This year we let another local club member have a shot at it because he was convinced that he could do even better. It turned out to be much harder to get Free merchandise then he thought. 2.)Change from a two day format to a one day format......make this decision HALFWAY through day ONE.........Stages were running WAY ahead.....This did two things.....1.) The Prize Coordinator had all merchandise stored in his garage prepared to bring out Sunday.....and he lives 45 minutes from the range. 2.) Competitors are stuck with another night of Motel expense. 3.)Decide that since our new Prize Coordinator might not have as much Free stuff......don’t send him on the hour and a half round trip......just save all merchandise for the Fall Classic. 4.) Assume that the Plaques have been ordered. Find out the morning of the match that they haven’t been. Send a PDF form to the Plaque supplier after the match with Plaques needed and shipping addresses.....assume it went through. The sad part is that the match was going real good...at least the shooting part. Where else could you shoot a 12 stage 300 round match for $50? COPS has always tried to keep our Entry Fees real low. We’re usually about half price of most major matches......and 1/5 the price of the Steel Challenge. I have learned from my mistakes. Chris Thomas has graciously said that he will be back on board for 2006. We will never deviate from published match format. Plaques will be ordered well in advance.......I personally talked to Emanuel today and ordered the Fall Classic Plaques 2 months in advance. We won’t make much money on this match, if any....and it appears that I have offended a couple of shooters and for that I am sorry. Bob Delp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYAOYAS Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Hey azone 41! Primary mos 22 years active duty. Retirement sucks!!! Secondary 8492,7801 ect,ect. If you know you know if you don't well I couldn't even explain it. But i've got the strange feeling you know. EOD was the best gig on the planet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBlaster Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Hey all, I'll try and get the steel awards made up and sent out before I leave for Ecuador, next week. I get so much junk mail that I may have deleted the order that Bob sent me by accident before I seen it. If so, I'm sorry, It wasn't on purpose!! Thanks, Emanuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Bob, thanks for taking the time to answer people's questions. People forget how hard it is to run a successful match, and some people have never been involved with a match, so it was good to explain what happened. Thank you for your candor and honesty. I personally am looking forward to the match schedule for next year! Doug Carden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I've never been to one of Bob's matches, but after reading his frank and honest responses, I wouldn't hesitate to go if the opportunity presented itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYAOYAS Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Well I'm, glad all is well. As far as the some of the private e-mails I've received . Well if you sent one you got a responce. I'm glad its taken care of. Its to bad it took 2 months to get a reply from the match director and I had to raise a stink on this web sight to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBlaster Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Awards Update: I received the winners list yesterday and got the steel match order processed and out today, so everyone that should be getting a plaque will have it in the next day or two!!!! Congrats to all the winners!! Thanks!! Manny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I'm happy to report Jill received her plaque a couple days ago, as promised. It's pretty cool looking, she refused to put it up on the wall in my home office with mine and Sam's, and now it has a special spot in her bedroom with all the hard rock music posters and other teenager crap.... Thanks, EB! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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