Smith 929 accuracy loads

[dogdoc1]

I recently picked up a new Smith 929 9 mm revolver and am having trouble getting any loads that will group less than 4 or 5 inches at 25 yards. I have read a lot of old threads but few have any actual loads listed or actual rested groups achieved at 25 yards. My throats are uniform  .357 so I purchased some eggleston munitions 124 grain coated sized .357  and have tried some loads with 231 and cfe pistol but no luck yet. I mounted a 4 x leupold on-the revolver temporarily to assist with load testing to eliminate my poor eyesight . I want some thing that will group around 2 inches for all 8 shots at 25 yards. If anybody has some combinations that will do that, please tell me and I will try some in my revolver. I have multiple powders but no vv at this time. I can buy some if I have to. I used to shoot uspsa with revolver some 12 or 15 years ago with a 625 and it took a while to find loads with that one. I have been shooting limited with a 40 sti this year no thought about trying revolver again for the hell of it. The revolver seems put together nicely but he’ll if I can get it to group off a rest. Thanks

 

dogdoc

 

[Toolguy]

It should easily do 2" at 25 yards with a crosshair scope. Whenever I get a revo, new or used, I recut the forcing cone and muzzle crown. Nearly all the S&W revos I've seen over 40 years can benefit to some degree by doing this with piloted cutting tools. The rifling is nearly always fine, just the ends need correcting. Once you know both ends of the barrel are concentric to the bore, that is as good as that barrel is likely to shoot.

 

I have had no luck getting copper plated bullets to shoot a group (Berry's and Ranier) but can get small groups with jacketed, cast and polymer coated. A muzzle crown that's off center is the most common S&W barrel problem, and a bad crown will kill any hopes of ever getting a gun to shoot multiple shots to the same place, except by coincidence. A gun that is mechanically correct is very forgiving and shoots many loads fairly well, some better than others. A gun that has a barrel problem, is out of time, or some other issues will be very finicky of what will shoot a group, if anything will at all.

[roundabout]

I run 2.6 grs of Titegroup with a 160 grn Bayou Bullet; shoots very accurately out of my 929. 

[MikeyScuba]

34 minutes ago, roundabout said:

I run 2.6 grs of Titegroup with a 160 grn Bayou Bullet; shoots very accurately out of my 929. 

 

I use 2.8 grns of N320 with the above bullet sized to .358.  No accuracy issues.

[missed it by that much]

124 grain acme
Titegroup 4.0 grains
OAL 1.125
8 shots 17 yds 2.139 inches ctc
1 flier

160 BLACK & blue coated bullet
VV320 3.0 grains
OAL 1.160
8 shots 1.339 inches 25 yds ctc
8 shots 3.318 inches 50 yds ctc

All off my gun bag as a rest on a bench


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[dogdoc1]

Thanks 

just the info I was looking for. I may need to get some 160  grain to try.

Edited July 30, 2018 by dogdoc1

[jcc7x7]

Make sure your nose cap or comp are on tight.

Better yet, take it off and test to make sure your bullets aren't hitting those end caps etc.

[MikeyScuba]

My wife uses the comp on hers and by the time we learned to be really careful with the end caps she had to really scrape the lead out of it.

 

And as for the 160gr Bayou's,  I've just got some of the Ibejheads 165gr 358 sized bullets.  Never new they existed until I saw them sponsor ICORE matches.  Seems to be a smoother coating and nice not to have the lube groove.

[IHAVEGAS]

13 hours ago, Toolguy said:

but can get small groups with jacketed, cast and polymer coated

 

Any thoughts about a gun that shoots polymer coated extremely well but then accuracy goes to the toilet as it leads up excessively, and is a real pain to clean?

[Toolguy]

I have never had any leading problems with coated bullets. It depends on where the leading is happening. If in the forcing cone area and an inch or two forward, look for a too small forcing cone, barrel to cylinder  misalignment at the time of firing, and a choked barrel where it screws into the frame. If on the muzzle end, probably a comp that needs cleaned out. I spray Dillon case lube in the comp ports every 50 to 100 rounds. this keeps the comp fairly clean and makes any cleaning chores much easier.

[IHAVEGAS]

1 minute ago, Toolguy said:

If in the forcing cone area and an inch or two forward, look for a too small forcing cone, barrel to cylinder  misalignment at the time of firing, and a choked barrel where it screws into the frame.

 

That.

 

Thank you!

[Dr. Phil]

My 929 loves the .358 dia bullets. I tried 147gr .358 Blue Bullets and they shoot like lasers. I get under 2" easily at 25 yds. I then had my bullet guy size some 155gr powder coated at .3575 and they shoot great. Been experimenting with Bayou 105 gr .358 (38 bullets) and powder coated .380 cal 102gr sized to .3575 and they are really accurate also. The gun with .355 or .356 bullets is about a 3 to 3 1/2" gun at 25 yd..

BTW my load for all the above bullets is the same. 3.4 gr Win 231. COAL for the heavy bullets is 1.170 and the Bayou are seated to the front edge of the shoulder.

YMMV

[dogdoc1]

Going to order some 147 and maybe some 160s at 357. Got plenty of 231, sport pistol, titegroup and just about everything but very n320.

[missed it by that much]

+1 on that 105 grain bayou bullet behind 3.5 grains Titegroup accurate and powder puff load. Both my 929 and springfield 5.25 shoot well with that load

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[kevinj308]

my 929 at 50yds, iron sights, off a bag. 125jhp Zero's, 4.6 WSF. 4 inch black center. 

[missed it by that much]

my 929 at 50yds, iron sights, off a bag. 125jhp Zero's, 4.6 WSF. 4 inch black center. 

Are those 355 or 356 zeros?

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[kevinj308]

.355's, Zero #162 with Lapua brass. Runs great in my Glock too. 

[Alaskan454]

I run a 147gr RN Blue Bullet with 3.0 gr of TiteGroup.  It has hit anything I've tried out to 100 yards.  I don't have a machine rest to provide true mechanical accuracy numbers.  Results with 10" plates at 50, 75, and 100 yards were sufficiently convincing.  

[pskys2]

On 7/30/2018 at 9:25 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Any thoughts about a gun that shoots polymer coated extremely well but then accuracy goes to the toilet as it leads up excessively, and is a real pain to clean?

Not all coated bullets are the same.

Many years ago had some that were worse than shooting swaged lead at high velocities.

Now with the popularity of the true polymer coatings, bayou, blue, ibjhead it's not much of an issue.  

What maker are you using?  Maybe someone has already been there and can help.

[IHAVEGAS]

15 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Not all coated bullets are the same.

Many years ago had some that were worse than shooting swaged lead at high velocities.

Now with the popularity of the true polymer coatings, bayou, blue, ibjhead it's not much of an issue.  

What maker are you using?  Maybe someone has already been there and can help.

 

As fate would have it I just noticed this Monday on SNS's website.

 

"Attention All Customers!  Over the years, we have noticed one common theme when it comes to dirty/leaded barrels...Powders with fast and or hot burn rates.  Here is a link to a powder burn rate chart.  We recommend powders with burn rates slower than the top 15 on this list, with the exceptions being Ramshot Competition, Red Dot, and N310. 

We HIGHLY recommend checking out "Alliant Sport Pistol."  It's an excellent, cheap, and readily available powder that is made specifically for coated bullets.  There are plenty of other options out there, so please stay away from very fast/hot burning powders with our coated bullets.  Thank you! "

 

Had done almost all of my experimenting using fast powders (titegroup & bullseye) with coated bullet brands that had worked great for me in my other guns (Bayou & SNS). 

Going to try some Sport Pistol & see what happens. 

Thank you for the inquiry!

[pskys2]

23 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

As fate would have it I just noticed this Monday on SNS's website.

 

"Attention All Customers!  Over the years, we have noticed one common theme when it comes to dirty/leaded barrels...Powders with fast and or hot burn rates.  Here is a link to a powder burn rate chart.  We recommend powders with burn rates slower than the top 15 on this list, with the exceptions being Ramshot Competition, Red Dot, and N310. 

We HIGHLY recommend checking out "Alliant Sport Pistol."  It's an excellent, cheap, and readily available powder that is made specifically for coated bullets.  There are plenty of other options out there, so please stay away from very fast/hot burning powders with our coated bullets.  Thank you! "

 

Had done almost all of my experimenting using fast powders (titegroup & bullseye) with coated bullet brands that had worked great for me in my other guns (Bayou & SNS). 

Going to try some Sport Pistol & see what happens. 

Thank you for the inquiry!

Yes I have seen the same statement used several times.  Back to my previous bad experience, the manufacturer also said that and I tried it and it didn't make a whit of difference.  It was either a bad mix, or a cheap knock off of a coating.  The company has since been sold 3 times and the current bullets using that brand name are much better and are somewhat popular so I won't name them.

FWIW I've used Bayou, Acme, IBEJ, Blue and Swamp Poppers and all give no or very little leading in Bar-Sto, Clark or Schueman 1911 barrels, 3 Glock Gen 3-5 barrels or any of the 8 revolver barrels (M28, 29, 325, 625, 627, 642, taurus m85 or ruger blackhawk) I have.  There is still some fouling but you will get that from even an open based fmj bullet and to a lesser degree (primer/powder residue) with cmj/jhp's.

Right now I have settled on Acme or Bayou depending on caliber and weight I need.  Acme even gives an Enos Discount of 10%.

[FWSixgunner]

It should easily do 2" at 25 yards with a crosshair scope. Whenever I get a revo, new or used, I recut the forcing cone and muzzle crown. Nearly all the S&W revos I've seen over 40 years can benefit to some degree by doing this with piloted cutting tools. The rifling is nearly always fine, just the ends need correcting. Once you know both ends of the barrel are concentric to the bore, that is as good as that barrel is likely to shoot.
 
I have had no luck getting copper plated bullets to shoot a group (Berry's and Ranier) but can get small groups with jacketed, cast and polymer coated. A muzzle crown that's off center is the most common S&W barrel problem, and a bad crown will kill any hopes of ever getting a gun to shoot multiple shots to the same place, except by coincidence. A gun that is mechanically correct is very forgiving and shoots many loads fairly well, some better than others. A gun that has a barrel problem, is out of time, or some other issues will be very finicky of what will shoot a group, if anything will at all.

After reading this post, I rented a .357 chamfering kit with 11-degree forcing cone cutter. It’s been a real eye-opener.

The pictures are from a 66-6 I shoot in IDPA. It’s accurate enough for IDPA but not much more.

Note how much more steel was cut from about 9:00 to 1:00 vs the opposite side of the barrel.







It can’t be good for a bullet to go rattling through that thing on it’s way to the rifling.

After looking at these pictures, I’m wondering if I need to go back cut a little more.

A 45-degree chamfer and pilots are due from Brownells this week, so we’ll see if the crown is similarly off-center.

[Toolguy]

Yep- the forcing cone needs more cutting. Ideally, it should be even all the way around and about 1/8" from the back to the rifling.

[FWSixgunner]

Yep- the forcing cone needs more cutting. Ideally, it should be even all the way around and about 1/8" from the back to the rifling.

Is it OK to go deeper than the plug gauge?

[Alaskan454]

1 hour ago, FWSixgunner said:

 

Is it OK to go deeper than the plug gauge?

 

The standard practice is to use plug gauge depths, though some of my most accurate guns have very short or very long forcing cones.  If you think it's going to be too deep go shoot some rounds through it before cutting deeper. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Alaskan454