PCC suspected "binary" trigger

[johnbu]

Ok, i was RO'ing local match and the pcc fella was putting up amazing split times on targets.  like 0.09s splits.  i don't know jack about binary triggers,  but google thinks that it's more likely a binary than not.

 

How does one address the situation? I checked the rules and they are not allowed, but how would you go about checking? 

 

Yes this is a serious question.  And no, i really don't know much about them at all, how they work, etc.

 

 

[Steve RA]

It will fire when pulled and also fire when released.

[TonytheTiger]

There weren't any steel plates where only one shot was needed? It would be pretty obvious if he was doubling everything.

[JAFO]

Tell the shooter you're concerned his PCC is doubling and ask to test it by holding the trigger back on one shot, then releasing.

[nate89]

Also, every binary trigger I have seen has a standard trigger pull on the 'fire' position, and you have to rotate the safety selector 180 degrees to what would be a burst or auto position to activate the binary trigger.  If they really are trying to circumvent the rules, then make sure you try to rotate the selector all the way with hammer back.  I will add that there are ways to fire a pcc that fast with a standard trigger, so keep that in mind as well.

[Patrick Scott]

2 hours ago, johnbu said:

Ok, i was RO'ing local match and the pcc fella was putting up amazing split times on targets.  like 0.09s splits.  i don't know jack about binary triggers,  but google thinks that it's more likely a binary than not.

 

How does one address the situation? I checked the rules and they are not allowed, but how would you go about checking? 

 

Yes this is a serious question.  And no, i really don't know much about them at all, how they work, etc.

 

 

0.09s splits are easy to get without all these fancy binary setups. Just got to change the recoil system and/or how you hold the gun. Shoulder mounted bumpfire is a real thing if one cares to set the gun up and learn the technique. 
JAFO is right as far as how the rules allow you to investigate such concerns 
 

[johnbu]

Thanks for the input guys! 

 

Also good to know those are possible legit splits. I don't want to cast doubts unneccessarily.

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, johnbu said:

Thanks for the input guys! 

 

Also good to know those are possible legit splits. I don't want to cast doubts unneccessarily.

check this out:

 

[L3324temp]

There weren't any steel plates where only one shot was needed? It would be pretty obvious if he was doubling everything.

There is one binary trigger that has a 3 position selector. One is safe, one is a standard trigger function and the 3rd is the binary position.


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[TonytheTiger]

Yeah but wouldn't that have some very obvious selector fingering between target types? Sure seems like it would be hard to hide a binary trigger. Harder than .09 splits anyway.

[Flatland Shooter]

Would it be possible to pull the trigger for the first plate then transition to the second plate and release the trigger?

[TonytheTiger]

Sure, but what about single or triple plates between paper arrays? Sure seems like a lot of work to use such a trigger.

[johnbu]

3 hours ago, Patrick Scott said:

Shoulder mounted bumpfire is a real thing if one cares to set the gun up and learn the technique. 

 

I'm assuming that's legal. I didn't see anything in the rules against it

[Patrick Scott]

7 hours ago, johnbu said:

 

I'm assuming that's legal. I didn't see anything in the rules against it

There is actually a rule that allows it within PCC 10.5.18:

 "Bump firing without mechanical aid is not penalized, provided there are no other equipment or safety infractions, the PCC is not doubling, and it can be safely fired in semi-auto mode."

[Bwilmot]

We have several pcc guys in our area that are very fast with their pcc splits.   All are legal and just that good  

[sfinney]

Or we could try this, as the R.O. or rangemaster:

 

"Hi, is that a binary trigger?" and depending on the response, "Do you mind if I handle it?" and inspect it.

 

Rather than fretting about on the interweb. Just saying. 

[louu]

11 minutes ago, sfinney said:

Or we could try this, as the R.O. or rangemaster:

 

"Hi, is that a binary trigger?" and depending on the response, "Do you mind if I handle it?" and inspect it.

 

Rather than fretting about on the interweb. Just saying. 

How to win a thread,

by sfinney

[d_striker]

15 hours ago, ChuckS said:

check this out:

 

 

Why does it look like he's manipulating something with his right thumb between the upper and lower steel at 2:55 and 3:37?  

 

Perhaps just sympathetic movement from taking his trigger finger out of the trigger guard?

 

[JAFO]

44 minutes ago, d_striker said:

 

Why does it look like he's manipulating something with his right thumb between the upper and lower steel at 2:55 and 3:37?  

 

Perhaps just sympathetic movement from taking his trigger finger out of the trigger guard?

 

 

Looks like he's adjusting his grip while waiting on the spinner to come back down.  Or maybe he's just working a cramp out from pulling the trigger so fast!

[Patrick Scott]

1 hour ago, d_striker said:

 

Why does it look like he's manipulating something with his right thumb between the upper and lower steel at 2:55 and 3:37?  

 

Perhaps just sympathetic movement from taking his trigger finger out of the trigger guard?

 

This type of trigger speed is not uncommon for Max and really not that hard to replicate. 

[Patrick Scott]

Hiperifre ECL

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Patrick Scott