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HowardM

Best Single tip for running a good stage

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2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Try not to be over 50 years old. 

Tried that already...didn't work.

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3 hours ago, rtillery said:

How do you determine which stages those are?  On a stage recently i had 26 alpha on a 26 shot stage and got beat by a guy with some C's, a D, and a mike.  He ran it faster.  Where is the line ?  Is it based on points available or design of the stage or something else?

 

It's based on experience and understanding hit factor scoring.  The relative weight of points to time changes with hit factor.  Higher hit factor stages adjust the weight bias towards time where low hit factor stages moves the weight towards points.  In other words, dropping a point is relatively more penal on lower hit factor stages than on high hit factor stages.  It's not that simple, but it's the idea.  

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Don't over complicate your plan. You could have the best plan ever. BUT if it takes focus on actual shooting  you are just distracting yourself.

 

 

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I typically come to the match a day early (or early enough to walk the stages for a local match)and watch others run the stage.  This gives me a basic idea. I then form a plan for the stage by walking it and committing to memory start positions, movement and reloads. I then look for ways to “save time” in movement and transitions based on target position and body position. Once I’ve figured out the most economical way to attack the stage I burn it in my memory. Then run it ten times in my mind before shooting the stage and once more at the make ready.  God bless. 

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On 7/22/2018 at 3:06 PM, HowardM said:

I know running a good stage requires a lot of different things but being a fairly new shooter trying to break things down and focus on what is most important to having a successful stage my initial thought is STAGE PLANNNG is the most critical but would like insight

I’d tend to agree if we are talking about one single thing. But as noted above - Make it a point stick to whatever your plan is and execute it. Worst thing I do is occasionally go to “plan b” at the line. Throws everything off.

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This year the learning has been that if I know where my feet need to be the rest falls into place.

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Running a good stage is dependent on one thing and one thing only....... you have to be totally relaxed, and this is dependent on mental conditioning. If out heartbeat is normal at 70 bpm, check it before the buzzer goes off. It can easily go over 120 bps, and this is why our brains turn to mush once we hear the beep, and why that first stage is always the worst. As we shoot stage 6 or 8, we are more relaxed and generally shoot better. 

Edited by abb1

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Best tip I follow: Get your hits.

 

Slow is smooth, smooth is accurate and faster than you think. As a newer shooter I always rushed stages due to adrenaline and trying to mimic the cadence of better shooters which got me a lot of C's D's and Mikes. Turns out, what I think is "slow" during my stage is much faster than I thought.  

 

I ran a stage once as an Unclassified Limited shooter and tried to tie a GM Open shooter's time. I actually beat his time but ended up with a HF of 3.8 to his 9.something. I could hear the laughter from my friends all the way downrange. If I had taken another 1-2 seconds, doubling my alphas and dropping my Mikes, I may have won the stage (in Limited). The bonus of being a newer shooter (for me anyways) is you shouldn't be worrying about your placing, which allows you to "try stuff". If anything, it's entertainment for the rest of us.

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On 10/1/2018 at 12:36 PM, theWacoKid said:

Once you've put in the practice and planned the stage all you have to do at the match is get out of your own way.

:D And to get out of your own way - let what you see (and sometimes feel) control the pace of everything that happens. No thinking or trying of any kind - just watching.

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My biggest takeaways regarding stage planning are from Tactical Performance Center (Ron Avery) and Rob Leatham. In brief:

  • Create (and play several times) an HD picture of what you're going to do during the stage, with an eye on shots, transitions, movement, and positions
  • Think of your run as running water -- you want to prevent the water from pooling up in any one place
  • Plan for efficiency (e.g. if you are moving left, start by shooting targets right to left, so your muzzle is heading in the right direction)
  • Adjust how much time you spend on the trigger (and on holding the gun steady) as a function of how difficult the shot is
  • Plan where you will reload

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I'm a bit late to this party but here are my thoughts anyway.

Accept that it will take some time to get the hang of it.

For me, it wasn't until my 10th level 1 competition that I finally started feeling that I started getting the hang of it and knew at least a little what I was doing. Going through stages and making a plan was secondary to just making sure I did everything safely. Creating a mental plan and making sure I had it all in my head was pretty much wishful thinking as you only had a few minutes to memorize a stage and in between shooters you were patching targets, writing down scores etc. The very best you could do was knowing how many targets there were and where. After that you could start thinking about mag changes. Of course, that plan usually went out the window anyway when you found yourself missing that darn plate a bunch of times.

Putting it all together is far from easy but you'll get there if you get out there and compete you'll slowly learn how to piece it all together.

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I had a bunch of things start clicking into place when I started designing stages with much help from a lot of helpful mentors in my club.

 

Build a stage on paper, check if it's all legal, try to visualize it from ground level, adjust accordingly.

 

Once I had a legal stage on paper, I put it on the ground on match day.  A few adjustments were needed but it was a fun stage. I now make it a point to design and build a stage every match I shoot when possible.  

 

What this did for me is take my visualization and stage planning to a different level.  I started seeing different ways to engage target arrays to help with entry and exit along with specific order to the different target arrays.  Foot placement, reloads, speed of execution, calling my shots, overall stage planning are all on the upswing now.

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On 7/25/2018 at 3:49 PM, Flyingpig said:

Don't shoot faster than you can see your sights?

 

Isn't this a bit outdated? I've seen many top shooters shooting faster than they can see the sights, especially when they know the gun.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/5/2019 at 10:11 AM, xdf3 said:

 

Isn't this a bit outdated? I've seen many top shooters shooting faster than they can see the sights, especially when they know the gun.

 

I've never seen a top shooter shoot faster than they see their sights. Target focused or sight focused they are still seeing their sights i guarantee. 

Ask yourself a question. How can you call your shots if you don't see your sights?

 

Edited by Flyingpig

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7 hours ago, Flyingpig said:

 

I've never seen a top shooter shoot faster than they see their sights. Target focused or sight focused they are still seeing their sights i guarantee. 

Ask yourself a question. How can you call your shots if you don't see your sights?

 

I've seen many top shooters do it. You can't shoot a 0.10 in production intentionally and see the sights at the same time. It's a matter of practice

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44 minutes ago, xdf3 said:

I've seen many top shooters do it. You can't shoot a 0.10 in production intentionally and see the sights at the same time. It's a matter of practice

Top shooters see their sights all the time if they want to...

 

At close range you dont need to, but they could.

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11 minutes ago, bimmer1980 said:

Top shooters see their sights all the time if they want to...

 

At close range you dont need to, but they could.

It's a different topic already - most top shooters WON'T see their sights at that speed

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26 minutes ago, xdf3 said:

It's a different topic already - most top shooters WON'T see their sights at that speed

 

I´m starting to think you´r just trolling... Of course they CAN see their sights lift. I´m out. Someone else please... ;) 

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1 hour ago, bimmer1980 said:

 

I´m starting to think you´r just trolling... Of course they CAN see their sights lift. I´m out. Someone else please... ;) 

 

Lots of good info in Enos's book about different vision and awareness at different target distances.

Some trainers require students to tape over sights to learn and get comfortable with point shooting.

For me personally there is a certain very close distance where it is just fist-brown-hammer-down and all alphas. I do not know why top shooters would not point shoot when sights are not needed.

 

Probably the biggest gain for me last year was to spend some range time working on the really close stuff. I always took it for granted before and never really tried to maximize how hard I could push or what distances were outside of accurate point shooting. "See what you need to see" includes knowing what you do not need to see I think.

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43 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Lots of good info in Enos's book about different vision and awareness at different target distances.

Some trainers require students to tape over sights to learn and get comfortable with point shooting.

For me personally there is a certain very close distance where it is just fist-brown-hammer-down and all alphas. I do not know why top shooters would not point shoot when sights are not needed.

 

Probably the biggest gain for me last year was to spend some range time working on the really close stuff. I always took it for granted before and never really tried to maximize how hard I could push or what distances were outside of accurate point shooting. "See what you need to see" includes knowing what you do not need to see I think.

 

It was about if they CAN or not. Of course they can/could. No matter how fast the splits. I don´t say they have to, or it would change anything at that short distances at that speed (maybe a possible makeup shot, but you could do that too by watching the target)

 

Quote

Top shooters see their sights all the time if they want to...

 

At close range you dont need to, but they could.

 

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35 minutes ago, bimmer1980 said:

Of course they can/could.

 

Maybe. If I do something like set two or 3 targets at 4 yard distance and transition as well as I can I will see the gun come into position but it is all target focus and I don't really see the sight. 

 

I don't really know what a very skilled shooter capable of extremely low splits would see unless they intentionally slowed down. 

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On 3/9/2019 at 1:25 PM, bimmer1980 said:

 

I´m starting to think you´r just trolling... Of course they CAN see their sights lift. I´m out. Someone else please... ;) 

You're not going to track sights with a 0.10-0.15 split at few yards. What do you expect to see? It's not that grandmasters become supermen and they can see faster.

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36 minutes ago, xdf3 said:

You're not going to track sights with a 0.10-0.15 split at few yards. What do you expect to see? It's not that grandmasters become supermen and they can see faster.

I think we should end this till we both know what the other one thinks "seeing" means.

A sight doesnt lift faster at faster splits. I dont know if they could track them moving, but thats not what i meant. I meant to see the sights lift (or even jump around between the rear sight)

 

As i already said, theres not much (or no) use for it at extreme close distances, but they could see it. You said they cant, because of fast splits...

Of course you can point the gun to the target somehow and while pulling the trigger twice, snap your vision to the next target. You will get alphas AND be faster. 

 

Oh, and i´m pretty sure that top shooters see a lot more and faster than we do. Some do this stuff for a living and a looong time.  

 

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On 3/9/2019 at 5:55 AM, xdf3 said:

It's a different topic already - most top shooters WON'T see their sights at that speed

 

So at what distances would you say that top shooters start seeing/watching their sights? I'm curious as to when you think that top shooters might consider paying attention? At distances where you can blow pasters off the target I agree with your assumption. ANYTHING farther than that they are seeing their sights.

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