champ198 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I am still pretty new to USPSA and have been loading for my XDm 9mm 124gr Plated bullets from RMR bullets. I run Tightgroup powder for them. cant remember off the top of my head the powder amount or COL with out looking and I'm not at my bench. I have been thinking about going to a Coated bullet from SMS. what I am unsure about is what starting load to try and powder to use. I have read on the SMS website that they suggest a slower burning powder unlike the Tightegroup which they say is fairly fast burning. would like to get some input from some of you all that have shot this combo before or where to look for beginning loads to try. I have shot WSF and also W231 in the past and it shot fine. the reason I went with the Tightgroup was due to availability at the time I needed powder and it shot really well with the plated bullets I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) The problem with Titegroup isn’t how fast it burns. It’s how hot it burns. Wheelgun shooters don’t use titegroup because the high nitroglycerin content heats the cylinder up too much to comfortably hold during a stage. Durn the burn, this can also cause it be very smoky. It’s burning some of the coating off your bullets. (EDIT: lots of people load titegroup and coated bullets and don’t mind the smoke. I’m not one of them, but thousands of shooters do it all the time.) Ideal powders are things like WST, N320, Prima V, and Sport Pistol. Among others. If you still have WSF on hand, use it for a trial batch to see how you like shooting coated. Other powders will be a pinch slower, but you’ll barely feel it. Ensure that you’re loading with juuuuuust enough crimp to straighten the case walls, and no more than that. Consider it a “flare removal” die in all 9mm loads. Overcrimping is the biggest reason new reloaders have accuracy problems, especially with lead and coated... but it also applies to jacketed. Leads bullets are the softest and seal against the bore more quickly than hard copper jackets. Lead bullets fly faster for the same powder charge and also produce higher pressures. Look for data showing lead and FMJ bullets with your preferred powder on handloads.com or the powder manufacturers website, and if in doubt? Use the data for lead bullets, and work your way up from there using a chronograph. Edited July 17, 2018 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelCityShooter Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 One powder I haven't seem mentioned here in any of the load recommendation threads is W231 (aka HP38). Is their any reason it isn't used in 9 mm and/or .38 Sp. loads? I used it in both for years until it disappeared from the market for a few years and I switched to TiteGroup based on a recommendation from one of Hodgdon's tech service guys. Now it's available again and is there any reason not to go back to W231? I believe it's a bit slower than TG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I LOVE WW231 - been using it for 40 years (still have a tub of it from the 80's). And, before Steve can add "1880 or 1980?" - I really don't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, SteelCityShooter said: One powder I haven't seem mentioned here in any of the load recommendation threads is W231 (aka HP38). Is their any reason it isn't used in 9 mm and/or .38 Sp. loads? I used it in both for years until it disappeared from the market for a few years and I switched to TiteGroup based on a recommendation from one of Hodgdon's tech service guys. Now it's available again and is there any reason not to go back to W231? I believe it's a bit slower than TG. I'm not only a newb to coated bullets but to hand loading in general and due to a suggestion from a mentor, I'm starting my journey with a pound of HP-38 in .38 sp. I've been into photography since the darkroom days and he equated it to D-76 film developer. Not very fancy, but it'll get the job done. The one thing that astonishes me is how little 3.8 gr is in a .38 sp case. Next pound might be Trailboss just to have more volume in there. Sorry for the diversion of your thread. I'm following yours as I'm sure loading 9mm won't be that far in my future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George16 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I had been using Win 231 with coated, plated and FMJ bullets with good results. In fact, I just bought another 8# jug of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 OP, I used Titegroup for my 147 & 124 moly coated lead rounds in my 9mm. They were a bit smokey. Decent accuracy. I then tried Vectan 9.5 with some 124 Bayou coated bullets and stopped. They felt good and were accurate. My load is 124, 4.2 gn of Vectan 9.5 @ 1.130. They chrono'ed at 133 power factor this last Sunday. I tried 124, 125, 130, 135, 147, 160, 165, 170 grain bullets and now I'm back to 124's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Bullet Brand Everglades Bullet Type Round Nose Bullet Weight 124gr Powder Name Titegroup Powder Weight 3.4gr Primer CCI COL 1.130-1.135 Average Chronograph Speed 981 Standard Deviation 13.08 Chronograph Speed Low/High 957 995 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
practical_man Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 18 hours ago, SteelCityShooter said: One powder I haven't seem mentioned here in any of the load recommendation threads is W231 (aka HP38). Is their any reason it isn't used in 9 mm and/or .38 Sp. loads? I used it in both for years until it disappeared from the market for a few years and I switched to TiteGroup based on a recommendation from one of Hodgdon's tech service guys. Now it's available again and is there any reason not to go back to W231? I believe it's a bit slower than TG. I really like 231 for minor loads in most pistol calibers. It’s very versatile. Bullseye is another favorite for precision shooting sports, but not action sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeMack Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I've been loading 147g coated bullets for a couple of years now with 3.1 titegroup pushing them with no problems. I started with 'blue bullets' and switched to SNS Castings about a year ago. Don't notice a lot of smoke and have not had any leading problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tswisher21 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I also use 3.1 gns of tite group with a 147 coated bullet and extreme 147 plated. They are more accurate than me out of a p320rx and a sti dvc 0pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evild Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/17/2018 at 2:19 PM, SteelCityShooter said: One powder I haven't seem mentioned here in any of the load recommendation threads is W231 (aka HP38). Is their any reason it isn't used in 9 mm and/or .38 Sp. loads? I used it in both for years until it disappeared from the market for a few years and I switched to TiteGroup based on a recommendation from one of Hodgdon's tech service guys. Now it's available again and is there any reason not to go back to W231? I believe it's a bit slower than TG. I used 231 till it dried up, than switched to WST, till it dried up, than went to TG, which is waaay to smoke, but had10lbs to use. Just got a great deal on CFE pistol, when I use that up I will probably go back to 231, or Sport Pistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDubb Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 3.0 titegroup under a 147 sns at 1.140 oal 3.2 titegroup under a 135 sns at same length both 130-132 power factor These were shot out of Glock 34,xd9 4” and a shield 9mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliYeti Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Lots of people have no issue witht he smoke. I switched to Sport Pistol from N320 and I don't think I'll go back. So far I think it's my favorite powder I've ever used and it isn't smokey and keeps my gun cooler than tightgroup. I've found it cheaper than tightgroup as well so that's a huge plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixfella58 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I've shot Bayou 147's with N320 our of my M&P Pro and I like it a lot. Accurate, clean, and very little smoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floater Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Blue Bullets or Gallant 125-147 grain, add a little titegroup and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmo Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) Sports Pistol was supposedly designed for shooting coated bullets and I think Alliant hit a home run with this powder. I have found it to be very accurate...clean burning...meters well out of my 550 and has a mild recoil with 3.1 grains and a 147 grain Bayou bullet. Edited September 3, 2018 by Batmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDIllon Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 I've been loading 147FN Bayou's, with 3.0 gr of Tite Group, 1.149oal, and they seem to shoot fine in all of my guns. However I have been trying some 124RN and they feel pretty good do to the reduced recoil. I have arthritis pretty bad in my right wrist. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJM7288 Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 On 7/26/2018 at 6:24 PM, CaliYeti said: Lots of people have no issue witht he smoke. I switched to Sport Pistol from N320 and I don't think I'll go back. So far I think it's my favorite powder I've ever used and it isn't smokey and keeps my gun cooler than tightgroup. I've found it cheaper than tightgroup as well so that's a huge plus. I'm with Yeti, Sport Pistol is great powder. 125 Blue bullet 4.1 g Sport Pistol 1.140 OAL Works well in my Dan Wesson PM-9 and Valor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyJ Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 6:18 AM, GeeMack said: I've been loading 147g coated bullets for a couple of years now with 3.1 titegroup pushing them with no problems. I started with 'blue bullets' and switched to SNS Castings about a year ago. Don't notice a lot of smoke and have not had any leading problems at all. Interesting. I used to run sns over tg in 9mm and .40, but had issues with leading in 3 different guns (factory glock barrel, aftermarket glock conversion barrel and factory sti 1911 barrel). I recovered a couple of fired slugs, and could see bright shiny lead marking the rifling, so i switched to plated. Decided to give blue bullets a try through my factory glock barrel, still over tg, and so far, no leading, and a recovered bullet shows no exposed lead. Ymmv TobyJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 5 hours ago, TobyJ said: Interesting. I used to run sns over tg in 9mm and .40, but had issues with leading in 3 different guns (factory glock barrel, aftermarket glock conversion barrel and factory sti 1911 barrel). I recovered a couple of fired slugs, and could see bright shiny lead marking the rifling, so i switched to plated. Decided to give blue bullets a try through my factory glock barrel, still over tg, and so far, no leading, and a recovered bullet shows no exposed lead. Ymmv TobyJ Toby, land and groove rifling will cut coating as well as the thin plating used on normal plated bullets. The polygonal rifling used in Glocks (and others) is far less likely to strip coating or plating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyJ Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, IDescribe said: Toby, land and groove rifling will cut coating as well as the thin plating used on normal plated bullets. The polygonal rifling used in Glocks (and others) is far less likely to strip coating or plating. Ok, but I saw coating stripped from bullets shot through a stock glock barrel . And same barrel does not cut plated or blue bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel24v Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) On 7/17/2018 at 7:13 PM, stick said: Bullet Brand Everglades Bullet Type Round Nose Bullet Weight 124gr Powder Name Titegroup Powder Weight 3.4gr Primer CCI COL 1.130-1.135 Average Chronograph Speed 981 Standard Deviation 13.08 Chronograph Speed Low/High 957 995 ^^^^^^^This load will not make Minor power factor for USPSA or IDPA On 9/3/2018 at 10:54 AM, Batmo said: Sports Pistol was supposedly designed for shooting coated bullets and I think Alliant hit a home run with this powder. I have found it to be very accurate...clean burning...meters well out of my 550 and has a mild recoil with 3.1 grains and a 147 grain Bayou bullet. ^^^ what he said! I switched to Alliant sport pistol with my coated bullets as I could not get the accuracy that I wanted with Titegroup. I also had some keyholing problems with Titegroup and coated lead out of my Glock 34. After switching to Sport Pistol, the keyholing went away and I gained accuracy. Titegroup was working fine with my NEreloading plated bullets but since I am switching to coated lead the titegroup had to go. ! I am using 3.5gns of Alliant Sport Pistol under a 147gn blue bullet at 1.15 OAL with good results out of my G34 and will soon find out how they shoot out of my new Shadow 2. Edited October 1, 2018 by Diesel24v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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