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HowardM

Do you really need a high dollar bolt gun to shoot PRS

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Any rifle that is **100%** reliable with **100%** reliable magazines will do, provided it can hold 1moa.  As for a scope, anything that is FFP, has a zero-stop, MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA and has **100%** repeatable windage and elevation will do.

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I shot my first couple matches with and AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel and while I didn't do well, that was mostly my fault for being a newbie with rifles. But I'm getting better with experience and knowing what to practice.  2 of the 3 local matches in my area don't go past 600 yds, which shouldn't be a problem technically for any reasonably accurate rifle. The trick and the education comes in learning to shoot in various positions and conditions. That's why we're doing it, to learn.

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What you need is about $3500 minimum start up, that is enough to get you in the production division game.

 

You need to budget that into the following:

 

1) Quality Scope (FFP, MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL, 5-25, 6-24x) with a throw lever and anti-cant device all in a good base or set of quality rings.  

 

2) A rifle capable of consistent and repeatable all day long sub-minute accuracy (not that I had three holes touching that one day off the bench BS), and it needs to be magazine fed, and not some heavy bench monster.  Less and less shots are prone, and you'll NEVER shoot off a bench.  

 

3) A good quality bipod with aftermarket claw or spike feet, preferably one that can be easily attached via QR picatinny mount. 

 

4) A butt bag and a pumper pillow minimum (your gonna end up with a bunch of different useless bags till you figure out what you like) and you'll need a 2 point precision rifle sling.

 

5) Ammo and a setup to reload, I recommend having a good chronograph in the mix with this.  This can be as cheap or expensive as it needs to be.  All I know is if you end up using compressed loads then buy Forester Dies instead of Reddings, and ALWAYS full size your brass....

 

6) A kestrel 5700 elite with applied ballistics is highly recommended.  Yes you can do without it, but in my experience you don't want to.  You can't develope your own DA trajectory charts on paper, and keep a data book, but don't get in the habit of depending on your phone because you'll shoot places you can't get signal.

 

 

There are a lot of little items that you can waste money on, and some you can't live without.  Shoot at least ONE match before you really start dumping money into stuff.  Tag along with a buddy, borrow a rifle.

 

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My personal take, since I've competed going on 4 years;

 

The ruger precision rifle is the best bang for your buck, since it gets you into the dual mag accepted DBM bolt game, with a short throw bolt, good trigger out of the box, good 20moa cant built into the top of the receiver, lower bore axis to alleviate recoil and rise, a really well done barrel, a fantastic warranty, and a pricepoint to start you in the production series classification. Which by the way, is a fantastic class to be in. Pro's and such will offer you tips/tricks all throughout the match, and even give you some coaching throughout because you're not competing directly against them. Granted, the ruger is a smidge rough around the edges, so simple breaking of corners and polishing the bolt/trigger engagement points is all thats really needed to make shine.

 

As far as glass is concerned; Magnification is great, but clarity/light transmission is equally as important. First Focal plane is non-negotiable. SFP is a major hindrance and forces you to do public math while racing against the clock. If you run into a unknown distance stage, then it makes is even harder to score well. Thats not to say its not possible, but its a severe handicap.

You have to make the judgement call between clarity and magnification. If you compare a nightforce SHV-F1 4-14 Mil-R to a Vortex PST gen2 5-25, the reticle on the vortex is superior (in theory), but the light transmission is slighty worse and the clarity isnt as good. Its small differences, but you'll realize if you're shooting with the sun coming in at an angle and its super bright around you, while you're shooting a subdued target in the shade, that little bit of extra clarity and transmission helps tremendously. Secondly, magnification is a tricky subject, because everyone thinks that "mo biggah, mo bettah" but thats not always the case. Quite a few guys who shoot with the higher end Kahles/NF/Tangent/S&B end up running their magnification pretty much fixed around 12-15x magnification, with the occasional bump into the 20x range for the Know Your Limit/Dot Drill at 100.

 

The only thing that I've learned over time that made a huge difference: -Locking windage turrets-.

Either by a cap, or by a physical locking feature. You absolutely need it. I have seen and fallen victim to this so many times. In a hurry, you're loading and running a quick dope chart for that stage. Your mind is everywhere at once trying to prep, and you're suddenly third shooter up. You grab your gun, mentally do your checklist, and everything else. RO asks if you're ready, buzzer goes off, you run/move to position, calm down, boom. Swing and a miss. Do it again, calm down: boom, miss again. You get pissed. Third shot, still miss and you're absolutely sure you were still and locked in.

You suddenly go through the panic of figuring out what happened to your gun; was the barrel up against something, did something come loose, etc.

Then it dawns on you; you bumped the damned windage turret while getting to the start point, and now your 9/10ths a mil to the left.

You recover slightly, but that stage is a wash, and now you're in desperation mode to make up as many points as possible with what little time remains.

Its gut wrenching.

 

As far as caliber is concerned, 6-6.5 is the sweet spot. Great velocity, great BC, minimal recoil, and less drift to worry about. A kestrel is nice tool and neccesary, but you can negate some of the need for it if its fairly calm, and your match keeps the max distance under 600. 

 

With your AR-10, i'd rebarrel it for a smaller caliber honestly. You can run a 6.5CM barrel or a 6CM barrel, and be better off since both will fit AR-10 mags with an OAL of 2.80

 

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On 12/27/2018 at 3:16 AM, Alderleet said:

My personal take, since I've competed going on 4 years;

 

The ruger precision rifle is the best bang for your buck, since it gets you into the dual mag accepted DBM bolt game, with a short throw bolt, good trigger out of the box, good 20moa cant built into the top of the receiver, lower bore axis to alleviate recoil and rise, a really well done barrel, a fantastic warranty, and a pricepoint to start you in the production series classification. Which by the way, is a fantastic class to be in. Pro's and such will offer you tips/tricks all throughout the match, and even give you some coaching throughout because you're not competing directly against them. Granted, the ruger is a smidge rough around the edges, so simple breaking of corners and polishing the bolt/trigger engagement points is all thats really needed to make shine.

 

As far as glass is concerned; Magnification is great, but clarity/light transmission is equally as important. First Focal plane is non-negotiable. SFP is a major hindrance and forces you to do public math while racing against the clock. If you run into a unknown distance stage, then it makes is even harder to score well. Thats not to say its not possible, but its a severe handicap.

You have to make the judgement call between clarity and magnification. If you compare a nightforce SHV-F1 4-14 Mil-R to a Vortex PST gen2 5-25, the reticle on the vortex is superior (in theory), but the light transmission is slighty worse and the clarity isnt as good. Its small differences, but you'll realize if you're shooting with the sun coming in at an angle and its super bright around you, while you're shooting a subdued target in the shade, that little bit of extra clarity and transmission helps tremendously. Secondly, magnification is a tricky subject, because everyone thinks that "mo biggah, mo bettah" but thats not always the case. Quite a few guys who shoot with the higher end Kahles/NF/Tangent/S&B end up running their magnification pretty much fixed around 12-15x magnification, with the occasional bump into the 20x range for the Know Your Limit/Dot Drill at 100.

 

The only thing that I've learned over time that made a huge difference: -Locking windage turrets-.

Either by a cap, or by a physical locking feature. You absolutely need it. I have seen and fallen victim to this so many times. In a hurry, you're loading and running a quick dope chart for that stage. Your mind is everywhere at once trying to prep, and you're suddenly third shooter up. You grab your gun, mentally do your checklist, and everything else. RO asks if you're ready, buzzer goes off, you run/move to position, calm down, boom. Swing and a miss. Do it again, calm down: boom, miss again. You get pissed. Third shot, still miss and you're absolutely sure you were still and locked in.

You suddenly go through the panic of figuring out what happened to your gun; was the barrel up against something, did something come loose, etc.

Then it dawns on you; you bumped the damned windage turret while getting to the start point, and now your 9/10ths a mil to the left.

You recover slightly, but that stage is a wash, and now you're in desperation mode to make up as many points as possible with what little time remains.

Its gut wrenching.

 

As far as caliber is concerned, 6-6.5 is the sweet spot. Great velocity, great BC, minimal recoil, and less drift to worry about. A kestrel is nice tool and neccesary, but you can negate some of the need for it if its fairly calm, and your match keeps the max distance under 600. 

 

With your AR-10, i'd rebarrel it for a smaller caliber honestly. You can run a 6.5CM barrel or a 6CM barrel, and be better off since both will fit AR-10 mags with an OAL of 2.80

 

What scope are you running with a locking windage turret?

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Asking a newb question...if you were starting from scratch, would you buy a MOA / MOA scope or a Mil / Mil scope?

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45 minutes ago, Halo09 said:

Asking a newb question...if you were starting from scratch, would you buy a MOA / MOA scope or a Mil / Mil scope?

I found mil/mil faster to learn than my previous moa/moa scope. I got rid of my mil/moa scope, talk about confusing. 

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Thanks Homie!  That was the way I was leaning!  

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It's really about the same. As long as your turrets match your reticle it doesn't matter. Most shooters are using MIL, but some great shooters use MOA. Wind is wind; if you can make calls in MPH instead of MILs or Minutes it doesn't matter at all. 

 

However if you buddies or mentors are using MILs, might be good to go with that. Additionally getting people to learn to call corrections in anything other than MILs is tough. MIL is very easy to learn and going from MOA to MIL is not hard.

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Mil based is way better, all match shooters will be speaking in Mil language and also shortcut wind cheat holds much easier to figure in your head with mils

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You don't need to have a $5000 PRS rig to start, same deal with USPSA.  The best firearm to start PRS with is the one you already have, again, just like USPSA.
Many have voiced similar view points but the linked page below does a great overview on getting into a longrange rifle shooting.   Read that and I recommend picking up or checking out a copy of Ryan Cleckner's "Long Range Shooting Handbook".
 

 

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I have a Ruger precision rifle in 6mm creedmore with a vortex viper PST gen II 5-25 scope mounted with vortex precision rings 1.45"- it shoots just about the same hole at 100yards and is good to go out to 1100 yards with either factory or handloads- 108gr ELD bullets. This is a cost effective entry rig and lots of fun.

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thus there is no need to spend $3000+ on an expensive scope or $4500+ on an expensive rifle

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