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bigtimelarry

Production to 15 rounds instead of 10.

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When is USPSA going to change Production to 15 rounds to match IPSC..

They've been talking about it for a while, whats the holdup ?

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Current USPSA leadership is the current hold up. I don’t see them approving this anytime soon. I would be nice for those shooting USPSA and IPSC have the same rules.


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Not sure if you are serious.

If they were contemplating a change like that I hope the first step would be to poll the membership. A second step might be to fund the purchase of all guns from people who prefer to shoot 40 minor & could not load to 15 rounds :) .

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i haven't heard anyone talking about this except for a few guys who hate reloading but are scared of limited. Certainly no one in leadership is talking about it.

 

It seems more sensible to me to have to switch back and forth between uspsa and ipsc rather than switch back and forth between california and the rest of the western states.

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18 minutes ago, bigtimelarry said:

When is USPSA going to change Production to 15 rounds to match IPSC..

They've been talking about it for a while, whats the holdup ?

Who are "they"?

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6 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

It seems more sensible to me to have to switch back and forth between uspsa and ipsc rather than switch back and forth between california and the rest of the western states.

 

Seems like there is also a not insignificant number of folks who shoot on both sides of the US-Canada border. 

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10 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Who are "they"?

 

I understand that it has been discussed between IPSC and USPSA leaderships. Nothing too official (yet?) I believe.

 

I suppose it would make it easier to play both games with the same gun. The capacity difference isn't the only difference, though.

 

Can anyone remind me: what is the point of the USPSA 10 round limit? Some states not allowing more?

Edited by perttime

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Production seems to be doing just fine as it is. The vocal minority seem to be the only ones asking for 15 rounds. 

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4 minutes ago, perttime said:

Can anyone remind me: what is the point of the USPSA 10 round limit? Some states not allowing more?

 

from 1994-2004 all magazines were limited to 10 rounds. Canada is still limited to 10 rounds.

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As for IPSC/USPSA compatibility, the IPSC shooters can download to 10 and the USPSA shooters can upload to 15 if they have the mags. :devil: The hard part will be getting legal US guns through the IPSC equipment check.. :roflol:

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The IPSC 15 round Production is also doing well. The most popular division.

 

The thought of aligning magazine lengths in Open (1.5mm difference, as I recall), and seeing if Single Stack and Classic could be aligned with each other were mentioned too.

Edited by perttime

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11 minutes ago, perttime said:

The IPSC 15 round Production is also doing well. The most popular division.

 

The thought of aligning magazine lengths in Open (1.5mm difference, as I recall), and seeing if Single Stack and Classic could be aligned with each other were mentioned too.

 

What would this accomplish? It won't align USPSA and IPSC equipment rules, not even close. So why bother?

 

Production is one of our most popular divisions too, why would we change that?  In my mind there has to be a gain to make a huge change like that. And no, "I think it would be fun" doesn't count as a gain. If production isn't fun because of 10 rounds shoot Limited, Open, PCC, or CO. A lot of people seem to think production 10 works, or they wouldn't shoot it.

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I know it bugs the heck out of people and would make a lot of stateside guns no longer legal, but it wouldn't bother me at all to see a completely unified rule set that was more towards the IPSC side of it rather than the USPSA side of it. I don't care about the reasons why things are why they are in different divisions. But as someone going to US IPSC nationals this weekend it would be cool if my gun I use all the time was legal because the rules were the same between the two bodies. Rather than having an ipsc legal gun and a uspsa legal gun.

 

But I also enjoy the 10 round aspect of Prod in USPSA and would never make changing that round count for that division as a reason to change anything.

Edited by rowdyb

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If production goes to 15 rounds, then what is left for people in CA and NY who want to both remain competitive and comply with state laws. Single stack and revolver?

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I think, with the way a number of the State laws are in the U.S., it would be rather silly to go away from the 10 round limit.

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3 minutes ago, malobukov said:

If production goes to 15 rounds, then what is left for people in CA and NY who want to both remain competitive and comply with state laws. Single stack and revolver?

 

in theory, all divisions should be restricted to state limits if they are really limits on possession of magazines (as opposed to just limits on sales of new mags).

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1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

But as someone going to US IPSC nationals this weekend it would be cool if my gun I use all the time was legal because the rules were the same between the two bodies. Rather than having an ipsc legal gun and a uspsa legal gun.

 

Not having shot IPSC or reviewed their rulebook, is there anything aside from mag capacity that would not allow you to use an IPSC-legal Production gun in USPSA?

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8 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

in theory, all divisions should be restricted to state limits if they are really limits on possession of magazines (as opposed to just limits on sales of new mags).

 

Not just in theory, it's in the rule book:

 

3.3.1
In states where competitors are restricted by law to maximum magazine
capacity, that maximum capacity will be the maximum allowed for all
competitors in the contest.
Any such limitations must be made known
to all competitors

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Just now, JAFO said:

 

Not having shot IPSC or reviewed their rulebook, is there anything aside from mag capacity that would not allow you to use an IPSC-legal Production gun in USPSA?

 

Both have Production legal lists and they do differ. No barrels longer than 5" in IPSC for instance.

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It seems, especially with the recent opening of the modification floodgates, that this is a moot point.  USPSA Production-legal guns are now allowed to be so far off from factory stock that going to 15 rounds won't matter a bit.  I actually use 10-round mags in Production, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority for someone living in an unrestricted state, so most people probably have the mags needed to shoot IPSC, just not the legal modifications (or lack thereof).

 

I'm in the "don't change it" camp.  If you want more than 10 rounds, shoot Limited Minor.

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2 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

 

Not just in theory, it's in the rule book:

 

3.3.1
In states where competitors are restricted by law to maximum magazine
capacity

The problem is when someone living in NY drives to a match in PA or flies to a major match.

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At the very least, NY and Calif are limited to 10-round mags.

 

That's a large percentage of the population of the USA in those two states.

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