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allamericanbp

Production Division (Firearm Question)

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10 hours ago, malobukov said:

With Tanfoglio you get faster splits and reloads.

 

M&P is more reliable, transitions are faster, and first shot is easier.

 

I switched from M&P to Tanfoglio about a year ago. I like Tanfoglio better, mostly because reloads are easier. But looking at my classifier percentages and match results, there's no way to see the point where the switch has happened.

 

You really got faster reloads just from changing guns? Could it have been that the new gun got you practicing your reloads more and that is where the improvement came from?

 

Over the winter I switched from a 2011 Limited gun with a big ass magwell to a Single Stack gun. It took a little time to adjust, but the speed of my reload did not change at all. If anything it's faster now, but I doubt it's becasue the Single Stack gun is easier to load. I think the reload is more hand speed than gun choice, but maybe I'm doing it wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

You really got faster reloads just from changing guns?

Yes. Substantial difference, measured with a timer.

 

Last round in 10 round M&P9 magazines is very tight. If the slide is forward, you need to hit them really hard to ensure they lock in place. They also have a nasty tendency to bite my fingers if I don't hold them exactly right, so I need to slow down when making running reloads. And it's not easy to change the base plate.

 

Tanfoglio requires way less force, so I can reload it much faster. Took a while to get used to different angles, though.

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3 minutes ago, malobukov said:

Yes. Substantial difference, measured with a timer.

 

Last round in 10 round M&P9 magazines is very tight. If the slide is forward, you need to hit them really hard to ensure they lock in place. They also have a nasty tendency to bite my fingers if I don't hold them exactly right, so I need to slow down when making running reloads. And it's not easy to change the base plate.

 

Tanfoglio requires way less force, so I can reload it much faster. Took a while to get used to different angles, though.

That doesn't seem apples-to-apples. You're comparing a smooth reload to a reload + tap on buttplate? No wonder it's faster

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I can see if the gun doesn't fit and is biting you causing hesitation and costing time. That makes sense.

 

I haven't found the amount of force needed to effect my reload time. I do have to be careful seating 10 round 40 mags in my SS gun as they take a lot more force. But no time is lost, just need more power.

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2 minutes ago, TrackCage said:

That doesn't seem apples-to-apples. You're comparing a smooth reload to a reload + tap on buttplate? No wonder it's faster

No it's one motion in both cases. But with M&P, more force is needed to ensure the mag is seated, so I can do this motion faster with Tanfoglio.

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12 hours ago, malobukov said:

With Tanfoglio you get faster splits and reloads.

 

I switched from M&P to Tanfoglio about a year ago. I like Tanfoglio better, mostly because reloads are easier.

 

You’re absolutely the very first Tanfoglio owner I’ve ever heard claim that, and I’ve owned one and been around a lot of us.

 

Tanfogios are god awful to reload until you throat the magwell. Every single polymer gun is easier: I shot an M&P before switching, too.

 

There’s no way the unmodified Tanfo-frame’s reload is easier.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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11 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

You’re absolutely the very first Tanfoglio owner I’ve ever heard claim that, and I’ve owned one and been around a lot of us.

 

Tanfogios are god awful to reload until you throat the magwell. Every single polymer gun is easier: I shot an M&P before switching, too.

 

There’s no way the unmodified Tanfo-frame’s reload is easier.

 

I also feel like an unmodified stock 2 is easier to reload than my G34. I tend to catch the edge of the grip frame less often when pushing for reloads at speed.

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25 minutes ago, TrackCage said:

I also feel like an unmodified stock 2 is easier to reload than my G34. I tend to catch the edge of the grip frame less often when pushing for reloads at speed.

 

We have a very strange minority in here then.

 

Go post this as query in the Tanfo forum and you’ll get a very different majority view!

 

(I’m also presupposing all the polymer guns had a bit of dremel massaging done. I don’t know anyone who runs one in Production with the corners still square and sharp.)

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3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

You’re absolutely the very first Tanfoglio owner I’ve ever heard claim that, and I’ve owned one and been around a lot of us.

 

Tanfogios are god awful to reload until you throat the magwell. Every single polymer gun is easier: I shot an M&P before switching, too.

 

There’s no way the unmodified Tanfo-frame’s reload is easier.

 

 

i have no experience with a Tanfo other than hearing guys talk about how tough they are to reload... but I will say that I find the magwell on a M&P to be pretty unforgiving. 

 

and to the OP, there are definitely dudes out there that can run an M&P as hard as anything... the gun is less than ideal for limited division, but it is not the reason for your slow splits and s#!tty transitions.

Edited by tha1000

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5 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

You really got faster reloads just from changing guns? Could it have been that the new gun got you practicing your reloads more and that is where the improvement came from?

 

Over the winter I switched from a 2011 Limited gun with a big ass magwell to a Single Stack gun. It took a little time to adjust, but the speed of my reload did not change at all. If anything it's faster now, but I doubt it's becasue the Single Stack gun is easier to load. I think the reload is more hand speed than gun choice, but maybe I'm doing it wrong.

 

Doubt that you are doing anything wrong. If reloading one gun feels like threading a needle and reloading another gun feels like throwing a rock in a bucket there will be a speed and consistency difference.

 

When I was going back and forth between USPSA limited (big magwell) and my IDPA gun (no magwell) it felt like that. 

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13 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Doubt that you are doing anything wrong. If reloading one gun feels like threading a needle and reloading another gun feels like throwing a rock in a bucket there will be a speed and consistency difference.

 

When I was going back and forth between USPSA limited (big magwell) and my IDPA gun (no magwell) it felt like that. 

 

I think no magwell I would notice quick.

 

I certainly had developed a habit of throwing the mag at the gun and had to break that. But, good reload to good reload the times are the same. I do see i higher number of bad reloads in SS than limited, so I've been spending more time lately working on consistency than speed. Not that I have tons of bad reloads, but they happen.

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I dunno. I'm lazy, I went from M&P, to accu shadow to stock 2. The last 2 guns made me better, but way better with stock 2. 

 

But others are right, dry fire/live fire are what makes you better.

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On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:56 PM, happygunner77 said:

I dunno. I'm lazy, I went from M&P, to accu shadow to stock 2. The last 2 guns made me better, but way better with stock 2. 

 

But others are right, dry fire/live fire are what makes you better.

I agree, without enough practice the gun will not make a significant difference. C shooter here and shoot USPSA, maybe once a month most of the time without practice due to out of town work. My performance is way better when I get to practice.

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my thoughts as I shoot Production and Carry Optics.

Production I use a CZ Shadow 2 absolutely love it.

CO I use an M&P Performance Center 9L with a jPoint 8MOA mini sight.

I almost sold the M&P because I couldn't shoot it anywhere near as well as my

S2.

dropped in the Apex forward set sear trigger set , and now it feels like a completely different gun

also lost the ported barrel and dropped in a KKM barrel and actually shoot it almost as well as my CZ,

but it's taken a lot of rounds and hours to get there.

The M&P can work for production , I'd update it with those 2 "enhancements" both legal for Production.

I now have an S2 slide being milled for Carry Optics as well as I like a heavier gun but when I get that slide

I'm going to trick out the M&P as an open gun ..... I like it that much now.

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It is not the Gun yes a fancy CZ Or Tanfo can make things easier but at the same time can hurt you my good buddy is a Master Class shooter using a 2.0 with very little work done to it other then a lot of dry fire and live fire 

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On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 7:12 PM, OPENB said:

I'll bite. How can it hurt you?

 

Much heavier and causes more pain when dropped onto a bare foot.  ?

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Much heavier and causes more pain when dropped onto a bare foot. 

lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I shot with a Glock 34 for about 4 years and shot handloads out of that. This year I switched to an STI Tactical and also recently bought a CZ Shadow two, both shoot flatter and more accurate than the Glock 34. Gear helps, practice is a must. Now that I've had time and can make my focus of effort shooting, I spend most of my time training on the range, but when that isn't available is just dry fire training.

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On 7/12/2018 at 6:10 PM, allamericanbp said:

Thanks for all the input. And I figured that is what I would hear. I have been doing a lot of training and range time. The only reason that I ask is because I shot an STI DVC and I was able to run the trigger much faster than my stock M&P. It did have some gamer ammo but the gun is phenomenal. That is the reason for the question. Just wondering how much the trigger, weight of the gun, ammunition, etc. make. I have heard the training reply for a few years but there has to be a reason why people will spend big $$$ on these guns and why most champions run metal guns. I am not saying that it is impossible, but I'm just saying. ;)

If you take a mixed assortment of shooters and give them a mixed assortment of guns, the best shooter wins. If you take the very best shooters who have very similar skill levels, the one with the best gun wins. (very elaborate statement just to make a point)

 

But then again, I definitely recommend buying a high end gun but you still must realize that practice is what makes you suck less. The high end gun on the other hand, lets you focus on the fundamentals, forgetting small magazines, bad trigger pull and strong muzzle flip. Also, the high end guns usually are just more enjoyable to shoot, making range time more fun! Win-win am I right?

I started in open div and have progressed far faster than friends who started in production. I have also tried production div with loaner guns for fun and the results speak for themselves.

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48 minutes ago, Janskis said:



I started in open div and have progressed far faster than friends who started in production. I have also tried production div with loaner guns for fun and the results speak for themselves.

 

Open is a hullva drug & performance enhancer. I've been told by a few guys something similar; becomes a mindset of aggression in engaging targets & movement. Way off topic but something of great interest.

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