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What laser for your PCC


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11 minutes ago, 2011BLDR said:

If you notice the Ebay lasers linked in this thread exhibit the qualities of a Class 4 despite the labeling  :

 

I'll take a look at that article-- thanks!  Already glancing at it, it's got some good info.

 

The quote you made above is one of my major issues preventing me from moving forward:  I'm getting the distinct impression that these Chinese lasers are listing their outputs as one thing to paper screen their way into the American marketplace, but their real outputs are something completely different in practice.  That being the case, I have absolutely no idea what I'm getting into if I go that route, which is worrisome.  For instance, what if I have one of these lasers on my competition PCC but happen to splash it over a reflective surface while dry firing in my home?  I like to base my decision on hard data, and I'm afraid that I can't trust the data that these laser manufacturers are providing!

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On 8/28/2018 at 1:51 PM, jkrispies said:

This is my #2 reason that I'm holding of-- I'd want it to be directly  over bore to work with bullet rise and drop, but thumb and front sight would block it.  That would mean putting it directly under bore (I don't want to deal with a lateral offset) and given bullet arc, I think that may be a bad idea but Isn't necessarily a deal breaker since we're only talking about 25yd-ish shots.

And here lies my #1 reason... the whole "FDA says we can have" output dilemma.  I've tried studying the allowable numbers to see if I can find a "Chinese alternative" that may be brighter, but output numbers ratings are confusing first of all, and then I can't tell if "the Chinese alternative" is providing real numbers or fake numbers to be legal on paper for import purposes.  I have found a couple Chinese models that are promising but their online ratings are combos of "it's so perfect it must have been designed by Jesus Christ" to "it broke on the third shot" all for the same product.  And then there's the issue of finding an appropriate mount for the flashlight shaped alternatives...

 

I think the best alternative is something like this Lasermax Micro II that is ergonomically sound, has an integrated rail, and I know is built with quality.  I'd just like to know how it really compares in brightness versus this one recommended by Stick: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-Tactical-Green-Laser-Sight-Rifle-Dot-Scope-w-Picatinny-Mount-w-Switch/351203627105?hash=item51c55e1061:g:TqAAAOSwcu5UR1vn because if you go by what is "officially reported" by the Chinese manufacturer, they are theoretically producing the same output.  Unfortunately it's been reported by too many folks that lasers that produce only to FDA max aren't incredibly usable in mid-day sunlight when I shoot.

 

Another thing to think about, on top of the safety issues regarding Chinese lasers that are above legal power (in the visible and invisible wavelengths, meaning you may be getting does with radiation that your eyes don't recognize and force the blink response) is the ability to maintain alignment. I've tested a bunch of imported lasers and honestly, I cannot get them to maintain alignment. Granted, a PCC doesn't buck around nearly as much as a Glock 23, but you get the idea.

 

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I have the CMR-206 mounted @ 12 O'clock, I have used it:

 

  • several times on hard left leans
  •  on a 4 target laydown array ( sucked the stock up over the top of my shoulder) a traditional sight picture would have been problematic with the bore offset and hardcover + No- Shoot placement with this array)
  • several times on tight to the wall through a window targets
  • I had one where I was able to stay back out of a window and shoot the first target from the stock on belt start with the laser and eliminate a position entry and exit 
  • several times on 3 yard or closer tight head shots ( only upper A and above exposed) as a secondary POI reference through my primary sight
  • a window driveby, never stopped for a sight picture just picked up the green on target and let 2 go

I value my eyesight I will only use US manufactured laser that comply with safety levels, so that limits it to 1-7 yrd in bright direct sunlight, overcast or inside conditions stretch that considerably.

Edited by 2011BLDR
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10 hours ago, bockerSV said:

 

Another thing to think about, on top of the safety issues regarding Chinese lasers that are above legal power (in the visible and invisible wavelengths, meaning you may be getting does with radiation that your eyes don't recognize and force the blink response) is the ability to maintain alignment. I've tested a bunch of imported lasers and honestly, I cannot get them to maintain alignment. Granted, a PCC doesn't buck around nearly as much as a Glock 23, but you get the idea.

 

Copy that!!!

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If I were to go with a flashlight shaped laser I’d do that with their v-block light mount.  

Works perfectly with my Crimson Trace Rail Master. It is a short, straight picatinney that mounts the laser directly under barrel.


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On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 12:33 PM, stick said:

I bought the bottom one and while it's pretty bright it will not hold any kind of zero. At 20 yards it moves 5 to 6" with every shot. It's a cheap toy but not of any real use on a rifle.

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5 hours ago, Gregg K said:

I bought the bottom one and while it's pretty bright it will not hold any kind of zero. At 20 yards it moves 5 to 6" with every shot. It's a cheap toy but not of any real use on a rifle.

I have the top one and mine doesn't move.  Mine is aligned with my dot.  Not sure what to say.

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4 hours ago, stick said:

I have the top one and mine doesn't move.  Mine is aligned with my dot.  Not sure what to say.

With most Chinese stuff that is this cheep it's always a crap shoot, you may be able to order the same one and get a good one. The dog thinks it's really cool. ? 

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4 hours ago, KMA said:

At what range do you sight your laser in 7 feet or just make it the same as your red dot?

Thanks
Kevin


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I'm dialed in at 25 yards and run 125 grain HAPs where I can. Otherwise, I'm running 124 grain RNFPs.

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On 9/7/2018 at 11:54 AM, 2011BLDR said:

I have the CMR-206 mounted @ 12 O'clock, I have used it:

 

  • several times on hard left leans
  •  on a 4 target laydown array ( sucked the stock up over the top of my shoulder) a traditional sight picture would have been problematic with the bore offset and hardcover + No- Shoot placement with this array)
  • several times on tight to the wall through a window targets
  • I had one where I was able to stay back out of a window and shoot the first target from the stock on belt start with the laser and eliminate a position entry and exit 
  • several times on 3 yard or closer tight head shots ( only upper A and above exposed) as a secondary POI reference through my primary sight
  • a window driveby, never stopped for a sight picture just picked up the green on target and let 2 go

I value my eyesight I will only use US manufactured laser that comply with safety levels, so that limits it to 1-7 yrd in bright direct sunlight, overcast or inside conditions stretch that considerably.

What sight do you use? I’m curious if I will need a riser under my c-more. 

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FWIW I ran the 206 at 12:00 with a DP Pro on a riser and with a 510c, but what I found is that if I didn't get a really good cheek weld, it was still blocking my view of the target, so I went to an offset magpul mount. Working like a charm so far. 

 

The nice part is that there's no parallax on a laser. I co-sight with my red dot @ 10 yards. Want to know how much parallax movement your optic has? Install a laser and move your head around! haha. 

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I tried sever positions from my CT.  Finally used a Magpul Cantilever  Rail/Light Mount polymer and placed it at 6 o'clock. The rail is available in aluminum as well.  Ruled out 12 o'clock since it required a riser for the dot.  Fully ambidextrous.

 

 

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There are two things that keep me from 6 o'clock. Barricades and ports. 6:00  either prevents you from resting on the barricade (for a longer shot) or I had a height(?) under bore issues where my barrel was clear of the port/wall, but my laser was distractingly shining bright off the wall. 

 

As well as hard-left leans, which is 90% of why I have the laser anyways. If you keep the gun on your right shoulder, and go to lean left around a wall, you now not only need to lean far enough to get your barrel past the obstacle, but now even farther to get your laser, since it's the right-most part while you lean/cant.  

 

I also fear for the safety of my laser. None of them are super robust and the bottom of my rail is the mostly likely place to get smacked during a COF. 

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There are two things that keep me from 6 o'clock. Barricades and ports. 6:00  either prevents you from resting on the barricade (for a longer shot) or I had a height(?) under bore issues where my barrel was clear of the port/wall, but my laser was distractingly shining bright off the wall. 
 
As well as hard-left leans, which is 90% of why I have the laser anyways. If you keep the gun on your right shoulder, and go to lean left around a wall, you now not only need to lean far enough to get your barrel past the obstacle, but now even farther to get your laser, since it's the right-most part while you lean/cant.  
 
I also fear for the safety of my laser. None of them are super robust and the bottom of my rail is the mostly likely place to get smacked during a COF. 

Forestock long enough to use the rear of mount for indexing. Same place as before adding laser. Plenty of room to rest on barricade for my PCC. Laser is mounted all the way forward. And extends beyond grip. And short of the end of the barrel. That said, I do understand your concerns. So far no issues for me. Hope it stays that way. Using CZ Scorpion carbine.
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Last night we had our regular plate rack race match.(indoor)

Some of the guys are shooting in an upcoming night match. (outdoor)

 

So we did some practice with most of the lights off.

 

All I had was my CMR206 laser while they were all running lights.

You couldn't turn anything on until the start buzzer sounded.

 

Having my laser mounted at 12 o'clock on the end of the handguard was perfect. I could just hit it with my thumb.

 

It was a  bunch of fun!

 

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