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Jeremyc_1999

What laser for your PCC

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25 minutes ago, BartCarter said:

 

If you ever offer your internal for a Walther PPQ, I know where you can sell 5 of them.

It's not off the table. Being that we are replacing an internal part of the firearm, our guide rod lasers require a ton of R&D time, expense and ammunition to make sure the firearm will function 100%. With that said, understandably new products we try to roll out for the top selling models in the marketplace whose design allows us to incorporate the switching for our laser, but the Walther is a great gun and is gaining popularity everyday so who knows, maybe we'll be able to roll that out in the future.

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13 hours ago, bockerSV said:

I'm the product manager for all LaserMax products, if you guys have questions, feel free to bounce them around. There's nothing wrong with Crimson, they make a fine product and we are all confined to the same federal regulations on power output of these things. We've been making laser sights since 1989, so by now our way of doing things is pretty tried and true, check us out if you're in the marketplace.

 

As others have stated, these definitely have a limited application in USPSA but are pretty nice for shooting in weird positions or when starting with the stock on your belt and targets in view, you can start engaging just as quickly as you can flip a safety off.

 

Green lasers are definitely the way to go for this sport, the human eye just sees the color green easier than other colors in the light spectrum. We do pretty extensive livefire tests on compact and sub-compact .40S&W handguns so holding zero on a 9mm rifle is a breeze.

Good post. Thank you!

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On 7/18/2018 at 8:29 AM, bockerSV said:

I'm the product manager for all LaserMax products, if you guys have questions, feel free to bounce them around. There's nothing wrong with Crimson, they make a fine product and we are all confined to the same federal regulations on power output of these things. We've been making laser sights since 1989, so by now our way of doing things is pretty tried and true, check us out if you're in the marketplace.

 

As others have stated, these definitely have a limited application in USPSA but are pretty nice for shooting in weird positions or when starting with the stock on your belt and targets in view, you can start engaging just as quickly as you can flip a safety off.

 

Green lasers are definitely the way to go for this sport, the human eye just sees the color green easier than other colors in the light spectrum. We do pretty extensive livefire tests on compact and sub-compact .40S&W handguns so holding zero on a 9mm rifle is a breeze.

What LaserMax product would you suggest?  I did order a crimson trace, but have another PCC upper that I wouldn't mind outfitting with a laser

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The Micro 2 in green I think is best suited for a PCC, it's tiny, takes the same battery as a C-More slide ride, is as bright as we can legally make it,  has switches that are out of the way and does not need to be removed to change batteries. 

https://www.lasermax.com/micro-2-g.html

 

For a little less, the Spartan in green is really nice. It was kind of designed for use on a handgun, which you can kind of see when you look at the switches, but is rail mounted so works just fine on a rifle. The downside to this model is it must be removed to change batteries, though I have found that it returns to zero pretty well after removal as long as your returning it to the same rail slot.

https://www.lasermax.com/sps-g.html

 

Keep in mind these can often be found online and occasionally in retail for less than what we list them for on our website.

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3 hours ago, bockerSV said:

The Micro 2 in green I think is best suited for a PCC, it's tiny, takes the same battery as a C-More slide ride, is as bright as we can legally make it,  has switches that are out of the way and does not need to be removed to change batteries. 

https://www.lasermax.com/micro-2-g.html...  Keep in mind these can often be found online and occasionally in retail for less than what we list them for on our website.

$136 on Amazon: Rail Mounted Laser (Green) Requires at least 3/4 of rail space https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XXU2ZTS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_jnMvBb2FATDT3

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Well, like I had stated earlier, the FDA regulates the maximum power that lasers can legally be sold. For commercially available laser sights, you're not allowed to produce anything putting off over 5mW, so in really bright day light they can be difficult to see, depending on the type of material you are aiming it at, the distance and how good your eyes are.

 

Recently Crimson got dinged for this and was forced to do a recall:

http://www.recoilweb.com/crimson-trace-recall-issued-to-comply-with-fda-regulations-137867.html

 

But from an end user perspective, I'd be kind of happy I accidentally bought a laser that was brighter than legally allowed.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2018 at 10:33 AM, stick said:

Stick, have you actually compared these against a "major brand" green laser such as LaserMax, Crimson Trace, etc?  I've been wavering over purchasing this laser.  Based on BockerSV's info, I reviewed the eBay ad, and it says that this laser is rated at 5mW, which is the same as LaserMax and others are legally limited to produce.  I'm just wondering if this Chinese laser is a 5mW laser, or if they "conveniently rated themselves" at 5mW in the ad for legal purposes.

 

EDIT TO ADD:  I may have answered my own question, as it's listed here at 250mW:  https://www.laserpointerpro.com/250mw-green-beam-light-flat-head-laser-gun-sighter-black-p-1907.html

Edited by jkrispies

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5 hours ago, jkrispies said:

Stick, have you actually compared these against a "major brand" green laser such as LaserMax, Crimson Trace, etc?  I've been wavering over purchasing this laser.  Based on BockerSV's info, I reviewed the eBay ad, and it says that this laser is rated at 5mW, which is the same as LaserMax and others are legally limited to produce.  I'm just wondering if this Chinese laser is a 5mW laser, or if they "conveniently rated themselves" at 5mW in the ad for legal purposes.

 

EDIT TO ADD:  I may have answered my own question, as it's listed here at 250mW:  https://www.laserpointerpro.com/250mw-green-beam-light-flat-head-laser-gun-sighter-black-p-1907.html

It's really bright.  I shot a classifier with it last weekend (CM99-63) Merle's Standards.  I had no problem seeing the green laser on the target at 35 yards.

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I have had a LaserMax Spartan for a while now, I havent used it much but it has worked well. I have tried it mounted to the end of the handguard, in front of the optic on the upper, and on a 45* mount behind the optic on the upper. My favorite position is in front of the optic, but my shooting grip style means the beam gets blocked from time to time.  On the end of the hanguard is my second favorite, but my tube has no provisions to mount stuff so I have to rig something up. Right now its sitting on a 45* mount behind the optic and that works OK for a little as I have used it. It only get used for very awkward positions where I cant get my head behind optic. 

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Posted (edited)

Someone was letting a Crimson trace go for cheap so I picked it up and mounted forward of my CMore.  Only issue is if I curl my thumb over the Taccom CF guard it blocks the laser.  Currently debating what to do.  If anything....

 

Other issue is now I can't get rid of my cat during dry fire!

Edited by longbeard

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I've been running the Lasermax Micro II in green.  It's light, takes up very little space, and is as bright as the FDA says we can have.

IMG_1379.jpg

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On 7/29/2018 at 7:33 PM, longbeard said:

Someone was letting a Crimson trace go for cheap so I picked it up and mounted forward of my CMore.  Only issue is if I curl my thumb over the Taccom CF guard it blocks the laser.  Currently debating what to do.  If anything....

This is my #2 reason that I'm holding of-- I'd want it to be directly  over bore to work with bullet rise and drop, but thumb and front sight would block it.  That would mean putting it directly under bore (I don't want to deal with a lateral offset) and given bullet arc, I think that may be a bad idea but Isn't necessarily a deal breaker since we're only talking about 25yd-ish shots.

3 hours ago, hairy78 said:

I've been running the Lasermax Micro II in green.  It's light, takes up very little space, and is as bright as the FDA says we can have.

And here lies my #1 reason... the whole "FDA says we can have" output dilemma.  I've tried studying the allowable numbers to see if I can find a "Chinese alternative" that may be brighter, but output numbers ratings are confusing first of all, and then I can't tell if "the Chinese alternative" is providing real numbers or fake numbers to be legal on paper for import purposes.  I have found a couple Chinese models that are promising but their online ratings are combos of "it's so perfect it must have been designed by Jesus Christ" to "it broke on the third shot" all for the same product.  And then there's the issue of finding an appropriate mount for the flashlight shaped alternatives...

 

I think the best alternative is something like this Lasermax Micro II that is ergonomically sound, has an integrated rail, and I know is built with quality.  I'd just like to know how it really compares in brightness versus this one recommended by Stick: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-Tactical-Green-Laser-Sight-Rifle-Dot-Scope-w-Picatinny-Mount-w-Switch/351203627105?hash=item51c55e1061:g:TqAAAOSwcu5UR1vn because if you go by what is "officially reported" by the Chinese manufacturer, they are theoretically producing the same output.  Unfortunately it's been reported by too many folks that lasers that produce only to FDA max aren't incredibly usable in mid-day sunlight when I shoot.

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Just as a FYI i found this test on what higher levels of Green laser outputs are capable of:

 

Edited by 2011BLDR

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1 hour ago, 2011BLDR said:

Just as a FYI i found this test on what higher levels of Green laser outputs are capable of:

 

Interesting info!  It's pretty clear why the government limits to 5mw.  One of the concerns is a receiver mounted laser hitting folks' hands/thumbs for prolonged periods of time when we're not paying attention.  This video shows the dangers of that with a higher than 5mw unit.

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On 8/28/2018 at 7:03 AM, hairy78 said:

I've been running the Lasermax Micro II in green.  It's light, takes up very little space, and is as bright as the FDA says we can have.

IMG_1379.jpg

Hairy78, it looks like you're running the laser on the bottom of your handguard.  Any opinions on that mounting position?  Does it work well with bullet arc and zero?  Any danger of accidentally breaking it on rests/barricades?  Thanks, J

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On 7/8/2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeremyc_1999 said:

Now that my PCC is assembled, what laser are you using on your PCC ?

I'm running a Viridian combination green laser and white light. Have added a two point pressure switch and really like the set up!

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12 minutes ago, jdk129 said:

I'm running a Viridian combination green laser and white light. Have added a two point pressure switch and really like the set up!

I'd like to see a picture of that pressure switch setup if you can post one into the thread.

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51 minutes ago, jdk129 said:

I'm running a Viridian combination green laser and white light. Have added a two point pressure switch and really like the set up!

Actually, if I could find a really excellent light/laser combo, I'd go along with it even if the laser was a bit dimmer.  I'm actually an ambassador for Fenix and have suggested that they give dedicated weapon mounted lights a try but haven't gotten any responses to that suggestion yet.

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24 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Actually, if I could find a really excellent light/laser combo, I'd go along with it even if the laser was a bit dimmer.  I'm actually an ambassador for Fenix and have suggested that they give dedicated weapon mounted lights a try but haven't gotten any responses to that suggestion yet.

I'm running the Viridian X5L on my PCC.

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3 hours ago, jkrispies said:

Interesting info!  It's pretty clear why the government limits to 5mw.  One of the concerns is a receiver mounted laser hitting folks' hands/thumbs for prolonged periods of time when we're not paying attention.  This video shows the dangers of that with a higher than 5mw unit.

When I was Active Duty one of my collaterals was Adninstrative Laser Safety Officer (ALSO) that was probably  the hardest school I ever attended in my 22 years, but  I learned a lot. I personally would be vary concerned with being on the range with a green laser over 100  mW as their are definitely splash back issues off of  even semi reflective surfaces ( Steel targets, stands, racks , props....) and have removed myself from the bay while squaded with one of theas "eBay" lasers while it was activated.  I know for a fact laser safety lenses are not cheap or something you would chose to shoot in over a traditional lens.

Edited by 2011BLDR

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35 minutes ago, 2011BLDR said:

When I was Active Duty one of my collaterals was Adninstrative Laser Safety Officer (ALSO) that was probably  the hardest school I ever attended in my 22 years, but  I learned a lot. I personally would be vary concerned with being on the range with a green laser over 100  mW as their are definitely splash back issues off of  even semi reflective surfaces ( Steel targets, stands, racks , props....) and have removed myself from the bay while squaded with one of theas "eBay" lasers while it was activated.  I know for a fact laser safety lenses are not cheap or something you would chose to shoot in over a traditional lens.

 

2011BLDR, maybe you could answer something I was curious about--if it's allowed to be divulged!--which is if military laser sights for rifles and pistols such as those we're talking about here follow the same civilian 5mw limitation, or if military "operators" go above that... and if so, by how much?  

 

I know that when you're talking about things like medicine dosages there's a daily dosage maximum listed on over-the-counter bottles that is far below what you're allowed to take in a prescribed version of the exact same medicine.  For instance, with ibuprofen, an OTC bottle allows a maximum of 1200mg per day, whereas my prescription strength ibuprofen bottle says you can go as high as 2400mg per day... and I've been told by doctors that I can go even higher than that for a limited number of months, which I've done without any side effects.  I'm suspecting that there's a similar situation going on here with these laser mw limitations.  So...

 

Assuming that the military may be going with a "prescription level" of laswer mw, what might that level of mw be?

 

Thanks,

J

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That's a extremely complex question with complex answers if your really interested :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety

 

If you notice the Ebay lasers linked in this thread exhibit the qualities of a Class 4 despite the labeling  :

" Class 4 the highest and most dangerous class of laser, including all lasers that exceed the Class 3B AEL. By definition, a class 4 laser can burn the skin, or cause devastating and permanent eye damage as a result of direct, diffuse or indirect beam viewing. These lasers may ignite combustible materials, and thus may represent a fire risk. These hazards may also apply to indirect or non-specular reflections of the beam, even from apparently matte surfaces – meaning that great care must be taken to control the beam path"

 

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