Loading 38 special for best accuracy

[twister]

I shoot in an informal PPC league and just switched to revolver. What would be the most accurate load up to 25 yards. Some guys are shooting 125 gr. Jacketed hollow points, I was wanting to shoot hollow base wadcutters, mainly for the reduced recoil. Is one bullet any better than the other for this style shooting?

[Hi-Power Jack]

You're probably going to have to try them both and see

what works best in YOUR gun     

[Bill Sahlberg]

There is nothing more accurate at PPC than 148 gr8 HBWC (lead) using 2.8 gr of 231 and a tight crimp with Starline 38 Special brass & a Federal Small pistol primer. 594/600 at the real distances of 24 rnds at 50 yds, 24 rnds at 25 yes, and 12 rnds at 7.5 yds

[Ssanders224]

20 minutes ago, Bill Sahlberg said:

There is nothing more accurate at PPC than 148 gr8 HBWC (lead) using 2.8 gr of 231 and a tight crimp with Starline 38 Special brass & a Federal Small pistol primer. 594/600 at the real distances of 24 rnds at 50 yds, 24 rnds at 25 yes, and 12 rnds at 7.5 yds

 

This. 

This load (with PD 148 HBWCs) has won more matches and set more PPC records than any other on the books. 

[VanMan1961]

you should do some load workups to test to see which works best for you gun.  Loads will be different for different types (swaged lead, copper plated ...) of bullets, as well as different manufacturers. 

 

Here's some load workups and testing I did last winter

 

 

 

 

my testing setup is a ransom rest, shot through a chrono at a target at 50m.

 

 

my best grouping at ~2.5". Worst groupings were over 14"

[twister]

Thanks for all the advice, I think I’ll stick with the 148 hbwc and try a few different powders. I have read on the internet that 2.7 WST was supposed to be a very accurate load.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Darn, that's the 2nd person with a Ransom rest - how much do those things cost ?

[VanMan1961]

8 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Darn, that's the 2nd person with a Ransom rest - how much do those things cost ?

 

I picked mine up used for $500 with 4 sets of grip inserts.  It takes a bit of technique to get consistent trigger pulls, and you need a really solid base to mount it on

[pskys2]

The Rest isn't the major cost, it's getting it mounted to a solid base to effectively use it to its max potential.  The best is a concrete base.  

Anything that vibrates or moves can degrade the results and leave you no better than shooting over a good rest.

For semi-auto barrels some serious competitors make a fixture to just fire the barrel.  Saw an article about Doug Koenig how he did this to insure his Bianchi gun barrel would group into less than an inch at 50 yds, think he wouldn't settle for more than 1/2".

 

[Toolguy]

For PPC, the 138 gr. Bayou Bullets are really good. I'm getting very small groups at 50 yds. with them at 920 fps. Haven't tried a slower load. This load makes 125 power factor for Bianchi.

[twister]

Tool guy, what load are you using with these? Thanks, Dave.

[mwx40x40]

1 hour ago, Toolguy said:

For PPC, the 138 gr. Bayou Bullets are really good. I'm getting very small groups at 50 yds. with them at 920 fps. Haven't tried a slower load. This load makes 125 power factor for Bianchi.

Glad to see this, as I have been wondering about these. My only reservation is, I shoot an outlaw PPC match that often has reloads incorporated in them and the 160 RN is such a pleasure with comp III’s to reload.

[Toolguy]

28 minutes ago, twister said:

Tool guy, what load are you using with these? Thanks, Dave.

It's 3.9 grains of WST. Winchester Super Target. Probably the right charge of Bullseye or 231/HP38 would work fine too.

[twister]

Thanks toolguy, I appreciate it.

[Toolguy]

Sure, any time.

[VanMan1961]

On 7/8/2018 at 8:41 AM, pskys2 said:

The Rest isn't the major cost, it's getting it mounted to a solid base to effectively use it to its max potential.  The best is a concrete base.  

Anything that vibrates or moves can degrade the results and leave you no better than shooting over a good rest.

For semi-auto barrels some serious competitors make a fixture to just fire the barrel.  Saw an article about Doug Koenig how he did this to insure his Bianchi gun barrel would group into less than an inch at 50 yds, think he wouldn't settle for more than 1/2".

 

 

yep, getting a solid base was the tough part.  After we got the concrete block positioned, we fastened a steel plate to the block with anchors, and then bolted another plate to that to level out the mounting surface.  One of our guys was a sheet metal worker with access to a huge hydraulic brake

 

[Steve RA]

That should certainly be a rigid mount !!!

[SCTaylor]

Geez, that's probably 2 tons of concrete! 

[Dr. Phil]

wouldn't a 5 gallon pail full of kitty litter be just as good? piece of plywood on top and there you go...

[Steve RA]

Maybe not ???

[VanMan1961]

1 hour ago, Dr. Phil said:

wouldn't a 5 gallon pail full of kitty litter be just as good? piece of plywood on top and there you go...

I calculated a .001" change in barrel position equals ~.3" at 50m.  So I went with as rigid a base as possible to give me the most repeatable barrel position.

 

Try your pail of kitty litter and let us know how it works

[Dr. Phil]

Well, I don't have a Ransom Rest. Guess I can make something out of 2X4s?

[VanMan1961]

1 hour ago, Dr. Phil said:

Well, I don't have a Ransom Rest. Guess I can make something out of 2X4s?

sure, let us know how that works out for you

[Justin M]

Ransom Rest = Random Rest.  

 

I've got a few years with Ransom Rests as a professional.  Sure, it was nearly twenty years ago and back then I thought pistols that weren't made out of plastic were some of hokey religion for ancient times.  Now, twenty years older, I understand that these things, such as the 1911 and the revolver - particularly the N Frame, are elegant weapons for a more civilized age.  

 

We used to test barrels in a rigid fixture with a simple breech block and then handguns in Ransom Rests.  Both where mounted to a pillar of reinforced concrete and, if memory serves me, shot over Oehler chronos into  Suis Ascor acustic targets.  The barrel fixture, maybe, went into paper.  I honestly can't recall and it wasn't my particuar responsibility.   We had a rifle test sled as well.  We also had some fancy free recoiling affair that mounted to the sling rail on the "Olympic" small bore rifles for testing.  For air rifles, we removed the stocks and mounted them in a block of wood that was bedded and then clamped in an old shaper's vice.

 

That said, I own a Ransom Rest and I mount it to a 6,000 truck.  I don't really care if it's a 1" or 1.3" group, I just care that it's directionally correct.  I allow for settling between shots and have even considered some sort of outrigger system to lock up the back end of the truck.  A couple Hi-Lift jacks or something tied to the trailer hitch maybe.  I haven't really noticed a problem though. The bottom line is that it's an easy way to hold a wide variety of pistols for testing.  If I had my way, and one day I will, I'd like to build a linear free recoiling sled with either a barrel clamp or designed to use Ransom inserts for pistols.    

 

Ransom Rest should be it's own division.  It takes a lot of time and attention to detail to get repeatable results.  One guys "method" may not be repeatable for another.  

 

With my current troubles switching to a 929, it's clear it's more than just mechanical accuracy.  At the end of the day, when the scores are up on the virtual wailing wall that is Practiscore - it's far more than who can get the smallest group from a Ransom Rest.  When I worked up a load for the 929, I shot from the Ransom a bit, but settled on the load that grouped the best for me on sixteen two round strings (32 total) at 25 yards.  I shot my match pace for each of the two round pairs and alternated transitioning from left and right to the target.  

 

I guess one other way to look at it is how our Service Rifle team when to Perry.  Same ammo for every rifle.  Not individually set to just touch lands, not neck turned, nothing.  There was one "across-the-course" load.  For everyone.  Lake City brass, some VV powder, and a Sierra (or whatever was the hotness at the time, like PRL) pill.  Loaded by disgruntled soldiers in a very cramped room on at least a handful of different Co-Ax presses with different dies.  I should know, I worked in the loading room for a few months when I first got there.  Lots of winners shooting what most serious rifle shooters would consider somewhat inferior equipment.  

 

In my simple-minded opinion, for USPSA at least, the shooting and gear is the simple part - it's all that other silliness like reloading, entering, exiting, barricades, ports, etc that are where the work should be.  I seldom see a shot that couldn't be made by a mildly proficient shooter given no time limit.

 

I understand that the original poster is asking about some sort of informal PPC style shooting, but it seems this has turned into a Ransom Rest thread.

 

 

[stardust tommy]

in europe 125gr hbwc from h&n with vihta N310 (or 148gr with N310/320)

in the US remington lead 148gr  hbwc with WST powder

 

load your wadcutters 1mm out of the case for faster reloads