Grip is key?

[BoyGlock]

I believe if I could grip positively everytime all the time, I could probabaly shoot much better than my present level. It affects my aim/index, recoil control, trigger pull, overall mindset in stage runs. Shooting at speed is a bit easier w/ a good grip. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by BoyGlock

[Hi-Power Jack]

Agree    

[Seif26]

Are you saying good as in correct hand placement, grip strength or both?  In addition to other things I am trying to work my way through some 'shooters elbow' pain which really presents itself when I extend my arms.  I can grip at full strength with my hands touching my chest but once they go out.......  a whole different story.

[BoyGlock]

13 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Agree    

Ive just read your post in another thread about this topic and that almost nobody teaches its importance. Same observation here.

Been thinking about this for some time now. Think if I can have a good grip at least most of the time I shoot I would have solved more than half of my difficulties. 

[BoyGlock]

2 hours ago, Seif26 said:

Are you saying good as in correct hand placement, grip strength or both?  In addition to other things I am trying to work my way through some 'shooters elbow' pain which really presents itself when I extend my arms.  I can grip at full strength with my hands touching my chest but once they go out.......  a whole different story.

Placement, pressure, consistency should work together to help me reach my goal of shooting accurately at the least time. Thats how my good grip should be. 

I also went thru a lot of shooters elbow in search for the good grip. 

[Jake Di Vita]

20 minutes ago, BoyGlock said:

Ive just read your post in another thread about this topic and that almost nobody teaches its importance.

 

 

 

It's funny because I feel like 90% of my posts are harping about grip, stance, or other fundamental concepts.

[SCTaylor]

2 minutes ago, Jake Di Vita said:

 

It's funny because I feel like 90% of my posts are harping about grip, stance, or other fundamental concepts.

 

Can't fix stupid Jake...

[dkamps]

Shooters elbow made me realize that a perfect grip isn't all its cracked up to be, especially if you let it mentally mess you up if you don't end up getting that perfect grip on a draw.

Staying relaxed and flowing with the gun are far more important. As long as the sight returns to where it started, your grip is correct.

 

A good grip is kind of like a prerequisite to get to the higher level course, a foundation, but not the actual content.

 

but, that's just me and my thought process.

Edited July 3, 2018 by dkamps

[Jake Di Vita]

5 minutes ago, dkamps said:

Shooters elbow made me realize that a perfect grip isn't all its cracked up to be, especially if you let it mentally mess you up if you don't end up getting that perfect grip on a draw.

Staying relaxed and flowing with the gun are far more important.

 

A good grip is kind of like a prerequisite to get to the higher level course, a foundation, but not the actual content.

 

but, that's just me and my thought process.

 

That's quite a tortured thought process you have to come to those conclusions based on shooters elbow.

 

A perfect grip is all it's cracked up to be. I have never been mentally screwed up because I didn't hit a perfect draw. "Being relaxed" is so overused it's become a cliche. I don't even know what flowing with the gun means.

 

Your grip is the only interface your body actually has with the gun....it boggles my mind how one can reason their way to thinking it's not that important.

[Furrly]

It's they most important, ask me how I know.! 

[Nathanb]

This is by far the area that shows me greater scores. Finding a gun that fits your grip and being able to grip it consistently is critical 

[TimH]

6 hours ago, Jake Di Vita said:

 

That's quite a tortured thought process you have to come to those conclusions based on shooters elbow.

 

A perfect grip is all it's cracked up to be. I have never been mentally screwed up because I didn't hit a perfect draw. "Being relaxed" is so overused it's become a cliche. I don't even know what flowing with the gun means.

 

Your grip is the only interface your body actually has with the gun....it boggles my mind how one can reason their way to thinking it's not that important.

I couldnt agree with you more, Jake

[B585]

5 hours ago, Nathanb said:

This is by far the area that shows me greater scores. Finding a gun that fits your grip and being able to grip it consistently is critical 

 

It’s funny because there are all kinds of threads on grip, but very few about how the gun fits your hand.  When I first started this sport, I struggled forever trying to get my grip right on my gun.  I was consistently inconsistent.  In my case, the grip was too damn small.  When I switched from a plastic gun to a 2011 with the PT grip suddenly the heavens opened and I didn’t have fight the gun so much.  Literally within 15 minutes I could draw it faster with a better grip than I had my entire first season.   As I have learned more about the support, I have gone back and tried that gun and I still have never been able to get a consistent grip with it.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, B585 said:

 

 I have gone back and tried that gun and have never been able to get a consistent grip with it.

 

I have same problem with a BHP now that I'm used to the 1911/2011 guns     

[BoyGlock]

12 hours ago, Jake Di Vita said:

 

It's funny because I feel like 90% of my posts are harping about grip, stance, or other fundamental concepts.

Was refering to Hi-Power Jacks post about personal instructions in classes. True a lot of posts in this forum about the importance of gripping correctly. But maybe its was not given prominence it deserved vs other fundamentals. Or maybe we less better shooters did not give it importance enough. Its why I think its the most neglected fundamental among other fundamentals.

[Bunmaster]

4 years of inconsistent grip and draw. Got thicker grips, Boom fixed.

[Hi-Power Jack]

7 hours ago, Bunmaster said:

4 years of inconsistent grip and draw. Got thicker grips, Boom fixed.

 

How are your splits and transitions ?

[Doublehelix]

So many people talk about getting a grip to fit your hand, but how can you judge proper grip size? What "feels" right? Is there some measurement that you look for?

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, Doublehelix said:

 how can you judge proper grip size? What "feels" right?  

 

I shot a Browning Hi-Power (P35) for 25 years or more, and when I bought

my first 1911, I couldn'd believe how blocky the 1911 was - I thought I

made a terrible mistake.

 

Then I learned I was a lot more accurate with the 1911, and after using it

for a year, I thought that the BHP was too small for my hands - couldn't

get a real great two handed grip on it, like I did with the 1911.

 

I'm a big proponent of getting used to anything by practicing a lot     

[Flyingpig]

I'v recently discovered weightlifters/gymnasts chalk. I can't believe I have gone without it for this long. It makes a huge difference (with me anyway). Its great for not losing a good grip and its just as good on the occasion that you slightly miss your grip. it really aids in holding a good grip.  i would recommend it to anybody.

[IHAVEGAS]

On 7/3/2018 at 9:16 AM, SCTaylor said:

 

Can't fix stupid Jake...

 

Comma's can do a lot to promote peace. 

 

6 hours ago, Flyingpig said:

I'v recently discovered weightlifters/gymnasts chalk. I can't believe I have gone without it for this long. It makes a huge difference (with me anyway). Its great for not losing a good grip and its just as good on the occasion that you slightly miss your grip. it really aids in holding a good grip.  i would recommend it to anybody.

 

For me once my grip is correctly established I think my hands could be coated in grease & it wouldn't matter until it was time to reload. For drawing & manipulating the gun I do not want my hands to be slippery though. When it is really sweaty outside I just grab a handful of whatever I am standing on (usually stone-dust-dirt here) at make ready, works well, stold the idea from Mr. Enos. 

[dkamps]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 10:39 AM, Jake Di Vita said:

 

That's quite a tortured thought process you have to come to those conclusions based on shooters elbow.

 

A perfect grip is all it's cracked up to be. I have never been mentally screwed up because I didn't hit a perfect draw. "Being relaxed" is so overused it's become a cliche. I don't even know what flowing with the gun means.

 

Your grip is the only interface your body actually has with the gun....it boggles my mind how one can reason their way to thinking it's not that important.

 

I think you misunderstand, I said it was foundational.

Which is very important; it allows you to access a higher level.

 

I came to that conclusion because it was at a point I could barely hold a glass of water extended with my strong hand... so you could say I was physically incapable of getting a "Perfect Grip". I could however, get a good grip that may not have been ideal, but returned my front sight to where it started. My splits suffered sure, but my transitions didn't; so I lost what... .02-.05 seconds per target needing two shots?  So no, I don't think its the end all be all that's been insinuated.

 

I'm glad you've never been mentally screwed up because you didn't hit a perfect draw, but place any one facet of any multifaceted discipline on a pedestal and I can guarantee someone will be.

 

In no way shape or form did I say that a good grip on a gun wasn't important.

[Jake Di Vita]

42 minutes ago, dkamps said:

I came to that conclusion because it was at a point I could barely hold a glass of water extended with my strong hand... so you could say I was physically incapable of getting a "Perfect Grip". I could however, get a good grip that may not have been ideal, but returned my front sight to where it started. My splits suffered sure, but my transitions didn't; so I lost what... .02-.05 seconds per target needing two shots?  So no, I don't think its the end all be all that's been insinuated.

 

What actual testing did you do to put your hypothesis through the crucible that led you to figure you used? You might only be losing .02 - .05 on a 7 yard open target, but as the targets get more difficult the cost of a poor grip in both time and points increases dramatically. But hey, I'm not here to convince you of anything. If that's what you want to believe, go for it.

 

47 minutes ago, dkamps said:

I'm glad you've never been mentally screwed up because you didn't hit a perfect draw, but place any one facet of any multifaceted discipline on a pedestal and I can guarantee someone will be.

 

Well sure, SOMEONE might experience that. Someone might experience mental problems because they have a hang nail too. What's your point? I've never heard any good shooter complain that missing a perfect grip on his draw scrambled his brains. If you want to start breaking down every aspect of USPSA that could potentially adversely effect less skilled shooters mentally we are going to be here for awhile because the list is practically infinite.

 

50 minutes ago, dkamps said:

In no way shape or form did I say that a good grip on a gun wasn't important.

 

Maybe my English is off but I'm pretty sure saying "it isn't all it's cracked up to be" and "it's not the end all be all that's been insinuated" both seem like shapes and forms of saying a good grip isn't that important. 

 

You're saying the grip is foundational and allows you to access a higher level but at the same time it's not all it's cracked up to be. These statements are more than a little contradictory.

 

What class are you?

[dkamps]

3 hours ago, Jake Di Vita said:

 

What actual testing did you do to put your hypothesis through the crucible that led you to figure you used? You might only be losing .02 - .05 on a 7 yard open target, but as the targets get more difficult the cost of a poor grip in both time and points increases dramatically. But hey, I'm not here to convince you of anything. If that's what you want to believe, go for it.

 

 

Well sure, SOMEONE might experience that. Someone might experience mental problems because they have a hang nail too. What's your point? I've never heard any good shooter complain that missing a perfect grip on his draw scrambled his brains. If you want to start breaking down every aspect of USPSA that could potentially adversely effect less skilled shooters mentally we are going to be here for awhile because the list is practically infinite.

 

 

Maybe my English is off but I'm pretty sure saying "it isn't all it's cracked up to be" and "it's not the end all be all that's been insinuated" both seem like shapes and forms of saying a good grip isn't that important. 

 

You're saying the grip is foundational and allows you to access a higher level but at the same time it's not all it's cracked up to be. These statements are more than a little contradictory.

 

What class are you?

 

We might be talking about two sides of the same coin.. and possibly arguing to the same point; albeit with wording differences.. I was saying a "perfect grip" isn't the end all be all. A good grip can easily suffice; hence "isn't all its cracked up to be", a poor grip will always be a poor grip and your sights will never consistently RTZ.

 

With shooters/tennis/whatever elbow, a perfect grip isn't exactly attainable, but you can still get a good grip (fundamentals/mechanical advantage), without exercising to much force on the hands, placing strain on the tendons, causing pain. Sure the gun will flip more, but if you let the gun do the work (flow with it) you can still shoot fast.

 

Testing = shot timer, multiple classifier stages at some property I shoot at. 7-25 yards. That's what the difference was for me pre, during, and post tendonitis flair up.

 

Ill admit that in re-reading it, my first post did not clarify enough into what I was getting at, especially in regards to elbow pain and grip strength.

 

Class = UML Expert (2 Gun)

 

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by dkamps
spelling

[Jake Di Vita]

2 hours ago, dkamps said:

 

We might be talking about two sides of the same coin.. and possibly arguing to the same point; albeit with wording differences.. I was saying a "perfect grip" isn't the end all be all. A good grip can easily suffice; hence "isn't all its cracked up to be", a poor grip will always be a poor grip and your sights will never consistently RTZ.

 

With shooters/tennis/whatever elbow, a perfect grip isn't exactly attainable, but you can still get a good grip (fundamentals/mechanical advantage), without exercising to much force on the hands, placing strain on the tendons, causing pain. Sure the gun will flip more, but if you let the gun do the work (flow with it) you can still shoot fast.

 

Yes you can still shoot pretty well with a less than ideal grip. Pretty well is not at all interesting to me. I want to be competitive with the best in the country. A less than ideal grip is not conducive to that goal. If you're satisfied with performance that is just ok you can get away with all sorts of sloppy technique.

 

 

2 hours ago, dkamps said:

Class = UML Expert (2 Gun)

 

So you don't even shoot USPSA?