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Hodgdon Titegroup vs VV N320 for 9mm

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23 minutes ago, PhillySoldier said:

I was just looking through some of the load data for titegroup on the hodgdon site. There is only a 23 fps difference between min and max velocities for 115 hp's. Sh!t im lucky if I have SD's lower than that. The more I use, test and look into this powder; the more surprised it makes me how popular it seems to be 

If it works, it works. Plus, price and availability are good.

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N320 is probably the best powder out there for 9mm, the problem is cost and availability. I found some tried and fell in love, but that was the only bottle I ever found. Titegroup has it pros, but it is smokey. Meters very well and consistent.


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I've been reading that the Alliant Sport Pistol is supposed to be a replacement for the VV320.  I've gotten some and my initial impressions are that it meters well, fills the case so that you don't have to worry about a double charge like TG,  a lot less expensive than VV320 and is soft to shoot.  I'm currently working on a batch that I will take to the range and chrono, but my impression is that it's a very nice powder that works well with coated bullets.

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3 minutes ago, Out of Ammo said:

I've been reading that the Alliant Sport Pistol is supposed to be a replacement for the VV320.  I've gotten some and my initial impressions are that it meters well, fills the case so that you don't have to worry about a double charge like TG,  a lot less expensive than VV320 and is soft to shoot.  I'm currently working on a batch that I will take to the range and chrono, but my impression is that it's a very nice powder that works well with coated bullets.

 

That's of no use in this thread. The OP is asking about TG vs. 320 and he is located in Holland, ie not in the US with our nearly infinite powder availability.

Edited by SCTaylor

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2 minutes ago, SCTaylor said:

 

That's of no use in this thread. The OP is asking about TG vs. 320 and he is located in Holland, ie not in the US with our nearly infinite powder availability.

Right, but I was commenting for those who are finding that VV320 is expensive in the US.  I was offering an option for them.  

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1 minute ago, Out of Ammo said:

Right, but I was commenting for those who are finding that VV320 is expensive in the US.  I was offering an option for them.  

 

Okay... there are several threads on Sport Pistol making the same comment.

 

Can we please help the OP instead of injecting irrelevant nonsense?

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N320 is very much available where I live, too. It has been my choice fast burning powder for some time, although I might try N310 for .45ACP again.

It measures well through my ancient Dillon SDB with spring return in the powder system. I usually discard the first charge after a break, and then it is totally consistent.

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On 7/9/2018 at 7:51 AM, PhillySoldier said:

Just finished ransom rest testing titegroup, cfe and wsf over the last weekend. Titegroup didnt do so great, the other two did much better. Will try N320 next

Curious as to caliber; bullet brand, weight, and style;  and COL.

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Previously I tried titegroup with 124g berry's and precision delta plated. The brass was also cheaper once fired Blazer Brass. It grouped horribly at 5+ inches per group. This time around I had better components and group sizes were more around 2.5". I was using Hornady 115 FMJ's with starline brass. OAL was 1.15". Charge weights was from 4.0 to 4.8g. 20 rounds of each 0.1g increment - two 10 round shot groups each @ 25 yards

Edited by PhillySoldier

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4 hours ago, PhillySoldier said:

I was just looking through some of the load data for titegroup on the hodgdon site. There is only a 23 fps difference between min and max velocities for 115 hp's. Sh!t im lucky if I have SD's lower than that. The more I use, test and look into this powder; the more surprised it makes me how popular it seems to be

My experience is different re SD.  My standard production load or SS minor is 4.07 gr. Titegroup, R-P range brass (shot from zero to Lord knows how many times), CCI or Win primers, and Hornady 124 gr. FMJ-RN (0.355" diameter), Col 1.134".  

 

Most recent chrono (original CED with visible light, sensors shaded and sky screens in full sunlight) data:

 

SS 9mm:  10 shots, av. 1071.4, 132.9 PF, SD 7 fps; 1st 3 shots 1067.8 fps av., SD 4, and PF of 132.4 (these were the second 10 rounds through the pistol so a brand new barrel).

 

Production pistol:  10 rnds., 1050.2 av., SD 8, PF 130.2; 1st 3 rnds. 1055.7, 8 SD, 130.9 PF.  Barrel had 6,938 rnds through it.  Pistol 67K+ rnds.  Temp 76, elevation 5,233'  

 

May 2017, dual IR CED M2 chronos in coffin:  1065.6, SD 16, PF 132.0, and first three 1084.7 SD 14, PF 134.5.  Temp was in mid-80s and elevation 634'.

 

Same lot of ammo for all tests, and CCI primers.

 

Loaded on 1050 with no special attention except loading at a slower rate.  I recently added Reloading Innovations Spill Stop to the press so would expect less issue with powder split due to case wobble during reloading.

 

 

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I was using a labradar and recorded all shots. SD ranged from about 14-20. I was just making a point with such a small velocity range it doesnt give much room for any SD at all without going over max. Not that I terribly concern myself about going over max... ;) 

 

Barrel is a new fitted match barrel and around 1k rounds through it

 

Primers were winchester

 

Loaded on a 650 also with spill stops and a slow rate. Since I was only loading 20 rounds per increment it was monitored pretty closely

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1 hour ago, telligentgunner said:

I've just purchased a CZ TSO for limited division. I'm just learning about reloading. Is 320 also a good choice for 40 cal?

 

Short answer: YES!

That is what just about everybody uses for .40 in my corner of the world, and many other places. Vihtavuori online data can get you started, and I'm sure there's good recipes listed in threads here.

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On 7/4/2018 at 12:53 PM, GrumpyOne said:

N320 meters very well in my 550. 

 

Mine, too.

I've checked it many times and always spot on.

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4 hours ago, perttime said:

 

Short answer: YES!

That is what just about everybody uses for .40 in my corner of the world, and many other places. Vihtavuori online data can get you started, and I'm sure there's good recipes listed in threads here.

 

Great, thanks.

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On 7/3/2018 at 8:50 AM, rowdyb said:

Negatives to TG: gun gets super freaking hot. smokes considerably with coated bullets.

 

Negatives to N320: cost and availability. possible metering issues leading to inconsistent powder drops.

 

In the past three years I have had no negative issues with metering in regards to N320. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Best powder on the planet.

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You will use less TG over time but it's pretty dirty and very smokey. I've ran pounds and pounds of it in limited and PCC with no mettering issues. I've personally never ran it in open so I can only tell you my experiences. 

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In Southern Indiana where I live, the n320 is about $40 per lb. The titegroup is $21.99. Big price difference. As far as shooting goes, I have used both, and prefer the titegroup because n320 meters a little weird on my Hornady LNL. (+-1gr.) also, the “dirtiness” of titegroup is not that bad. I will admit that n320 is cleaner, but titegroup dirt is a grainy dirt, and is easy to clean up. Titegroup burns a lot hotter than n320 though, which can affect your fiber optic front sight over time. Pluses and minuses, if I could get n320 to meter right, and the price was cheaper, I would be shooting it. But for now it’s titegroup......but I did recently buy a pound of sport pistol to try. 

Edited by Eman

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1 hour ago, Eman said:

In Southern Indiana where I live, the n320 is about $40 per lb. The titegroup is $21.99. Big price difference. As far as shooting goes, I have used both, and prefer the titegroup because n320 meters a little weird on my Hornady LNL. (+-1gr.) also, the “dirtiness” of titegroup is not that bad. I will admit that n320 is cleaner, but titegroup dirt is a grainy dirt, and is easy to clean up. Titegroup burns a lot hotter than n320 though, which can affect your fiber optic front sight over time. Pluses and minuses, if I could get n320 to meter right, and the price was cheaper, I would be shooting it. But for now it’s titegroup......but I did recently buy a pound of sport pistol to try. 

You get +/- one whole grain of powder on an LNL?!? That’s friggin’ dangerous

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I’m sorry, I meant +-.1 grain! Yeah, 1 grain difference would be bad with titegroup lol

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On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:00 PM, Red Ryder said:

No problems with N320 metering in my 650. I use 2 scales and weigh 10 charges each. No variation.

Ditton on N320 through the 650.  No problems here either.

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N320 meters the same as TG in my 650 - in fact very few powders do not - 700x and Clays are what comes to mind.

 

N320 is good but I'm a little country as opposed to a little rock and roll - I like N310.  Plenty of threads about N310 with 147 and heavier bullets. 

 

If N320 is too much, you can generally find Accurate #2 cheaper - its very similar but not quite as good as N320.  Yes, N320 costs a lot but just by the virtue of being here on Enos and loading your own bullets, you obviously care about the finer parts of the sport - go ahead and stretch those T-rex arms waaaay out and reach deeeep in to those pockets ?

Tom

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I also like N320 and haven't had any problems with it despite reading all over that it's too fast.

 

N310 and N320 both work great, probably not worth the price over other powders though.

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On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:19 PM, Garmil said:

I also like N320 and haven't had any problems with it despite reading all over that it's too fast.

 

N310 and N320 both work great, probably not worth the price over other powders though.

Too fast?  Do you mean burn rate?  Tight Group is actually lower (faster) on burn rate charts than N320. 

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