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Struggling with 25 yd groups


AF2010

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6 hours ago, Blurryvisions said:

You must not have ever been around a good shooter then... who cares about 25 yard groups anyway. If you are trying to get a Glock to group at 25 yards I would smile and say good day to you sir ?

My glock groups great at 25 yards, in fact I'll shoot a 8 inch plat all day long at 100 yard with it. As for the 25 yard A zone, from what I tend to see in my area most people don't slow down enough to take a good sight picture on all the shots. You can't shoot faster then you can see the sights. The reason you do good on A zone head shots I'd because you know it's a smaller target so you take a split second longer to make sure your sights are lined up properly. It also helps to really learn where the A zone is so when it's covered be a shirt or at a longer range you don't have to look for the notches in the target. 

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26 minutes ago, xdf3 said:

One hole groups? What if that never happens?

I think he's saying the fundamentals are the same whether you're shooting 5 or 25 yards. The 25 yard target is a little blurrier and harder to see but everything that happens at the gun is the same. You find a precise points of aim, align the sights, press the trigger straight and smooth and then the bullet hits the target. If you just look at angular deviation a 3" 25 yard group is like shooting a 0.6" group at 5 yards. With a 9mm that essentially means that all of your bullet holes have to touch each other to meet the goal. In fact if you measure a 0.6" group center to center then it should fit entirely under a quarter at 5 yards.

 

I might be able to do that with my wife's 1911. No chance I could do it with my M&P. That's not to say I can shoot a 3" group at 25 yards either. The target is so out of focus for me that I struggle to get a consistent sight alignment/sight picture. But at least I know fundamentally what I should be doing lol.

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OK, what I am saying is you need to demonstrate the ability to shoot a 3 to 5 shot group, at 3 to 5 yards where all holes touch and form one hole.

 

Look at the example in one of Tim Herron's videos where he puts a target at 7yards and a target directly in line behind it at 25y. You can not see the 25 yard target, but you shoot your absolute best group at 7y, then you go and look at what that ends up at 25 yards.

 

You extrapolate for yourself just what your grip, trigger control and sight movement equals in shooting performance. If you don't have the ability to shoot those small of groups up close you can not shoot all A groups at 25 yards.

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I used to work with a similar drill. Standing, six shot group at 15 yards. The goal: all the bullet holes touch. In other words, no bullet hole with paper all the way around it.

 

In addition to a great skill test, your pistol must be very accurate (2 1/2 groups from a bench at 50 yards).

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I seen a guy post a video about groups once that was pretty cool.  He (if that is how they identify) set up 2 targets.  One at 5 yards and one directly behind it at 25.  The results were pretty interesting.  just goes to show how small the group needs to be at 5 yards to create a good group at distance.  I understand that isn't super sciency but I thought it was pretty neat

 

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37 minutes ago, jessesmith121 said:

I seen a guy post a video about groups once that was pretty cool.  He (if that is how they identify) set up 2 targets.  One at 5 yards and one directly behind it at 25.  The results were pretty interesting.  just goes to show how small the group needs to be at 5 yards to create a good group at distance.  I understand that isn't super sciency but I thought it was pretty neat

 

That guy is mostly likely posting in the thread already. Jesse say Hi to TimH. 😉

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On 7/3/2018 at 10:20 PM, jkrispies said:

 

Oh bulls#!t. If you put the dot on the target guess what? you are f....ing aiming. I don't care how many titles you have you got there by practice practice and aiming your highly custom gun with 1 pound trigger.

 

Edited by usmc1974
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USMC you are wrong he got there with his God given talent and a little practice. He also does not need a one pound trigger given his revolver titles. His guns are no different than any others except he can shoot them really well.

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15 hours ago, TONY BARONE said:

USMC you are wrong he got there with his God given talent and a little practice. He also does not need a one pound trigger given his revolver titles. His guns are no different than any others except he can shoot them really well.

You do not get to where he is with little practice. Unless you call 10-20 thousand rounds of month a little practice, nor did he get there shooting a Hi-Point.

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Oh bulls#!t. If you put the dot on the target guess what? you are f....ing aiming. I don't care how many titles you have you got there by practice practice and aiming your highly custom gun with 1 pound trigger.
 
You don't understand the point hes making? Theres a difference between precisely aiming the shot and just putting the dot in the A zone. The point is pull the trigger quickly without disturbing the gun. If your sights wobble in a 4 inch circle you'll shoot a 4 inch group by pulling the trigger without disturbing the gun. If you hold a half inch dot as your aim point then push the gun 0.1" low and 0.1" left every time you pull the trigger then your shot goes 6" low left.

To me it's fairly obvious what he's saying
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5 hours ago, jmtyndall said:

You don't understand the point hes making? Theres a difference between precisely aiming the shot and just putting the dot in the A zone. The point is pull the trigger quickly without disturbing the gun. If your sights wobble in a 4 inch circle you'll shoot a 4 inch group by pulling the trigger without disturbing the gun. If you hold a half inch dot as your aim point then push the gun 0.1" low and 0.1" left every time you pull the trigger then your shot goes 6" low left.

To me it's fairly obvious what he's saying

 

it's the internet.  Somebody's gotta be wrong and someone has to correct him.

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5 hours ago, jmtyndall said:

You don't understand the point hes making? Theres a difference between precisely aiming the shot and just putting the dot in the A zone. The point is pull the trigger quickly without disturbing the gun. If your sights wobble in a 4 inch circle you'll shoot a 4 inch group by pulling the trigger without disturbing the gun. If you hold a half inch dot as your aim point then push the gun 0.1" low and 0.1" left every time you pull the trigger then your shot goes 6" low left.

To me it's fairly obvious what he's saying

Hummmmmmm! Is he holding the gun with both hands? Is he bringing the gun up to eye level? is he looking through the window at the red dot? Is the Red Dot on the target ?guess what? that's called aiming! I swear, don't be a mushroom!

Edited by usmc1974
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11 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

Hummmmmmm! Is he holding the gun with both hands? Is he bringing the gun up to eye level? is he looking through the window at the red dot? Is the Red Dot on the target ?guess what? that's called aiming! I swear, don't be a mushroom!

 

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it's the internet.  Somebody's gotta be wrong and someone has to correct him.
It's not even that someone is wrong. He just really wants to aggressively play semantics to show how smart he is. I'm sure he has several national championships.

Anyways, he's successfully derailed the thread for those who want to distill down information from multiple sources and incorporate the helpful bits into their shooting.
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1 hour ago, jmtyndall said:

It's not even that someone is wrong. He just really wants to aggressively play semantics to show how smart he is. I'm sure he has several national championships.

Anyways, he's successfully derailed the thread for those who want to distill down information from multiple sources and incorporate the helpful bits into their shooting.

The OP wanted tight groups @25 yards, and your saying Ron's method is going to give them to him. correct? I am not that smart so I am asking.

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Paste an NRA B8 over an IPSC.

If you're shooting inside of the 9 ring, you are more than fine shooting the A zone at 25 yards.

If you deviate left and right of the A zone, you are moving the gun. Up and down is fine in relation to the A zone.

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