6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers

[Paulie]

8 minutes ago, Just4FunLP said:

I figured it would be good to run my own numbers so, for what it's worth, here it is...   I basically took my original HF and used the calculator on the USPSA website to come up with my new percent, then I simply subtracted the pre-update percentages from the post update changes.  I'm not a mathematician, so there's probably a better way of doing this.  When I saw this a couple of days ago I looked at about 3 of my previous scores and it looked like I'd get a 9% hit, but maybe it's not quite as bad as I first thought.  My goal is to make Production Master.

 

Paulie.  How did you come up with your numbers?

 

If this data is too out of whack I'll delete it.  

 

 

Classifier Percentages before and after June 2018 HHF update.pdf

 

My data are for limited. HHF from USPSA site. Barring a typo, they should be correct. 

 

As far as ranking- I took several factors: number of metric, partials, no shoots, poppers, walls, barriers. Also the setup width and distance.

 

Each one starts at 100% and declines for the number and weighted PITA factor, resulting in a final %. 

[Sdlrodeo]

On 6/29/2018 at 12:33 AM, BritinUSA said:

 

i think they should definitely unlink rifle and pistol divisions, classification level in one should have no impact on the other.

 

I’d also argue that the automatic ‘charity’ classification should not be just one class below in revolver division as well. I think Just because you classify as an M in an autoloading pistol division that you should not atomatically classify as an A in Revolver (unless your classifier scores justify an A). I think you should auto classify two levels lower in both Revolver and PCC. 

[Sdlrodeo]

On 6/29/2018 at 1:29 PM, Paulie said:

Limited el prez is 22% higher HF. Went from 10.14 to 12.42

 

 

 

Yep, my % dropped by 10 on that one. 

[MemphisMechanic]

5 minutes ago, Sdlrodeo said:

 

I’d also argue that the automatic ‘charity’ classification should not be just one class below in revolver division as well. I think Just because you classify as an M in an autoloading pistol division that you should not atomatically classify as an A in Revolver (unless your classifier scores justify an A). I think you should auto classify two levels lower in both Revolver and PCC. 

 

They should really just totally unlink rifle and wheelgun from the bottomfeeder divisions.

 

They are entirely different manuals of arms. I lose about one classification’s worth of performance shooting someone’s limited gun instead of my production gun.

 

My first match in PCC? I shot a low C percentage, far below the A class finish I would have had with my Q5 in production. Going the other way is true as well: plenty of PCC badasses cannot shoot a handgun well.

 

They’re entirely different to move with, and to shoot. Earn your classification freshly.

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Sdlrodeo]

On 7/3/2018 at 6:59 PM, AmarokTactical said:

Here are the changes made to the Carry Optics classifier HHF's - most of them have been balanced to be easier. I compiled these myself so there may be some errors, let me know if you see anything that needs changing.

 

This seems to make sense to me since (to my knowledge) CO[minor] was using the same scores as Open [major?]. 

[Sdlrodeo]

On 7/4/2018 at 7:03 AM, AmarokTactical said:

I used AZS Calc for the old HHF's, they haven't updated their info yet. The calculator on the USPSA site is pretty garbage and will lock you out after about 15-20 queries and you'll have to wait an hour. I wish they would just publish the information in an easy to read format. They don't even tell you HHF, just what 95% is so you have to do the math to figure out the new HHF's. 

 

I really don’t understand why HHF is secret if its so easy to do the math. If the org did publish the HHFs, that doesn’t mean they would have do disclose how they came up with them. Kinda like draping a curtain over a house and saying we can’t tell you there’s a house under there.

[Sdlrodeo]

45 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

They should really just totally unlink rifle and wheelgun from the bottomfeeder divisions.

 

They are entirely different manuals of arms. I lose about one classification’s worth of performance shooting someone’s limited gun instead of my production gun.

 

My first match in PCC? I shot a low C percentage, far below the A class finish I would have had with my Q5 in production. Going the other way is true as well: plenty of PCC badasses cannot shoot a handgun well.

 

They’re entirely different to move with, and to shoot. Earn your classification freshly.

 

 

Yep.

While I don’t have any Revolver data, my handgun classification percentages are as follows:

PROD Pre-update 83.9% (current calculation would net 81.03%) - While I was scratching at an M before the update, I’m still a solid A

LTD 74.8% (69.2%) - Solid B

CO 65.1% (66.1%) - Low B

 

However,

My PCC percentages are 60.3% (58.6%) placing me solidly in a high C under the new update.

I’d venture to predict my Revolver percentages would more closely mirror my PCC scores.

[Akkid17]

That’s backward of how I shot, I absolutely crushed PCC classifiers and most guys in our area finish much higher when shooting. PCC versus any of their handguns, PCC is different but just about any hoser stage will get dominated by PCC I would argue that you should get classified the same as your highest with PCC but 2 below with revolver. I was able to pull off several M classifiers and finished with 82% of the national champion at optics nationals with PCC and I just barely made A in single stack and limited. 

[Sdlrodeo]

2 hours ago, Akkid17 said:

That’s backward of how I shot, I absolutely crushed PCC classifiers and most guys in our area finish much higher when shooting. PCC versus any of their handguns, PCC is different but just about any hoser stage will get dominated by PCC I would argue that you should get classified the same as your highest with PCC but 2 below with revolver. I was able to pull off several M classifiers and finished with 82% of the national champion at optics nationals with PCC and I just barely made A in single stack and limited. 

Interesting. Did you have much experience with a carbine before? Military/LE? I really had no practice at all with my PCC (nor a dot for that matter) when I did my classifiers. Could just be that I really suck with a carbine. LOL

[Akkid17]

I shoot 3-gun, but when I started in 3-gun the rifle was the fastest for me to pick up and shoot well aside from long range that’s still kicking my butt. However, red dot plus a much more stable firearm I see as being the easiest way to move up, probably why so many people were able to bump their classifications in PCC so quickly. We have many PCC GM’s and still only 10 or so in carry optics I think that speaks volumes about how much easier it is to shoot a PCC than a pistol

[waktasz]

Does it? Or does it mean the scores were set incorrectly from the start?

[Sdlrodeo]

6 hours ago, Akkid17 said:

I shoot 3-gun, but when I started in 3-gun the rifle was the fastest for me to pick up and shoot well aside from long range that’s still kicking my butt. However, red dot plus a much more stable firearm I see as being the easiest way to move up, probably why so many people were able to bump their classifications in PCC so quickly. We have many PCC GM’s and still only 10 or so in carry optics I think that speaks volumes about how much easier it is to shoot a PCC than a pistol

 

I can see that. Good points all. 

[3gunDQ]

Has anyone put up a GM score with the new HHFs?

 

...I haven’t, but I only shot two, one with a penalty and another with a mediocre reload. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by 3gunDQ

[MikeBurgess]

Has anyone put up a GM score with the new HHFs?
 
...I haven’t, but I only shot two, one with a penalty and another with a mediocre reload. 

A guy on my squad shot a hundo this weekend in 99-63 in carry optics.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[motosapiens]

7 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

A guy on my squad shot a hundo this weekend in 99-63 in carry optics.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

isn't that one of the many that got significantly easier in CO (because so few elite shooters actually shoot CO at this point)?

 

[Racinready300ex]

15 minutes ago, 3gunDQ said:

Has anyone put up a GM score with the new HHFs?

 

...I haven’t, but I only shot two, one with a penalty and another with a mediocre reload. 

 

I squeezed in with a 96 on El Prez in SS. It wasn't anything special, like a low 5 with maybe 2 Charlie's. I know I can run in the high 4's.

[3gunDQ]

9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I squeezed in with a 96 on El Prez in SS. It wasn't anything special, like a low 5 with maybe 2 Charlie's. I know I can run in the high 4's.

 

Nice 

[tyman1876]

I shot Mini Mart at 98% in Open a few weeks ago. I’m not sure if that’s one that got harder or easier though.

[MikeBurgess]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

isn't that one of the many that got significantly easier in CO (because so few elite shooters actually shoot CO at this point)?

 

yes it is, 

 

but it still is a answer to the question asked

[HoMiE]

7 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I squeezed in with a 96 on El Prez in SS. It wasn't anything special, like a low 5 with maybe 2 Charlie's. I know I can run in the high 4's.

Once I start hitting high 4s the points start to drop, this is in production and carry optics. 

[HoMiE]

7 hours ago, motosapiens said:

isn't that one of the many that got significantly easier in CO (because so few elite shooters actually shoot CO at this point)?

 

I’m guessing whatever Max Michel shoots it in is good enough and you don’t need a whole bunch of other GMs to set the bar per se. 

[motosapiens]

10 hours ago, HoMiE said:

I’m guessing whatever Max Michel shoots it in is good enough and you don’t need a whole bunch of other GMs to set the bar per se. 

has he shot all the CO classifiers a few times?

[HoMiE]

2 hours ago, motosapiens said:

has he shot all the CO classifiers a few times?

He only has 3 classifiers and 1 area win on file, all of them 100%

[motosapiens]

32 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

He only has 3 classifiers and 1 area win on file, all of them 100%

 

alright, so you agree with me that almost no elite shooters are recording CO classifier scores. Thanks for the support. 

[HoMiE]

41 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

alright, so you agree with me that almost no elite shooters are recording CO classifier scores. Thanks for the support. 

Adam is pretty elite.