wdfwguy Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I'm trying to understand the balance between shooting speed and accuracy. I knew my movement was going to be slow, I was trying to be fairly cautious. And I was trying to shoot in "match mode"; I certainly could have shot faster, albeit with less As. But I clearly misunderstood the values of accuracy vs time. I ended up with the highest number of As in the match, but I was in the bottom 20% in speed. Which put me about 50/75 in the final standings. Obviously i should have shot faster and accepted less As. So, how do you find the shooting speed that will give you the highest hit factor, just experiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 If you're shooting Major PF, you can go for about 70% A's at the quickest you can shoot well. If you're shooting Minor PF, you should be aiming closer to 85% A's. Either way, you need to : 1. shoot as quickly as the sights are on the acceptable target, and 2. do everything else as quickly as possible. Most of us try to shoot Very Fast (and miss) and do everything else slowly and deliberately. The concept of running fast with a loaded gun in your hand does NOT come naturally to most of us civilized folk …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dapribek Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I took a shooting course from Mike Voigt years ago and he said the right tempo was an A and a C on each target. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, dapribek said: an A and a C on each target. Probably not a great idea for Minor PF, though. Might be okay for Major PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itlogo Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I like the advice, "Shoot as fast as you can hit A's." One day, I hope to heed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 One of those times where the saying, " you can't miss fast enough to win", gets debunked. If you are shooting slow and getting all A's you will get beat nearly every time by a much faster shooter who is throwing C's & D's. Heck even a mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkamps Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Avoid the C, but don't be afraid of the C. That's the speed I strive for. Edited June 25, 2018 by dkamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, wdfwguy said: So, how do you find the shooting speed that will give you the highest hit factor My first match (shooting at dinosaur eggs) I shot very slowly and hit every damn egg. My 2nd match, after observing some people who knew how to shoot, I sped up and ended up going too fast, for me, and missing a lot. Don't try to emulate competitors' speed - hit fast, and move faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent1k1 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Even multiple Mikes. If you are a safe shooter, as a test, shoot fast enough to make sure you have 2 hits on each target. You cannot have any misses, but just think about seeing 'brown' for anything less than 10 yards by shooting as safely as possible. You can only learn to shoot faster, by, shooting faster. It takes time, and will not happen on your 2nd match, but eventually your eyes and scores will start to find more Alphas. Once you are up to that speed setting, try to go faster but do NOT allow any Deltas. It's a process to learn how fast you can go to be accurate enough to get the Alpha percentages listed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, dapribek said: I took a shooting course from Mike Voigt years ago and he said the right tempo was an A and a C on each target. Hope that helps. Shooting Major that would be 90% of the points. Minor that would only be about 80% of the points. Seems reasonable. The problem will come when someone else shoots more points in the same time you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysejr Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Welcome to the Game.. Good Job on your 1st Match .I shot my 1st match 2 weeks ago so I am by no means a expert but here are my observations:You will need to count the targets to know how the stage will score ..Stages that will score high .. shoot all Alpha’s as fast as your ability allows .. Stages that score low .. speed up trying to make all alpha’s but accept shooting some Charlie’s to make it through faster.. As with everything speed will come with more practice and matches you shoot .. Remember it is a game have Fun and enjoy TWSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdfwguy Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Yeah, I should mentioned that I'm shooting minor. But in Production and CO, isn't everyone scored minor? I mean, you're only competing against people also shooting minor, so it's sort of irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdfwguy Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, toysejr said: You will need to count the targets to know how the stage will score .. Stages that will score high .. shoot all Alpha’s as fast as your ability allows .. Stages that score low .. speed up trying to make all alpha’s but accept shooting some Charlie’s to make it through faster.. Ok, that's what I find confusing. On some stages, a C or D will hurt you less than other stages. A much better shooter tried to explain it to me at the match, but I kind of had my match mode hat on and I didn't want to change my plan in the middle of my first stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, wdfwguy said: But in Production and CO, isn't everyone scored minor? I mean, you're only competing against people also shooting minor, so it's sort of irrelevant? A lost second is x amount of pain, a c is y amount of pain. If shooting major y is less relative to x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, wdfwguy said: Yeah, I should mentioned that I'm shooting minor. But in Production and CO, isn't everyone scored minor? I mean, you're only competing against people also shooting minor, so it's sort of irrelevant? True, but the further you stray from the A the more it costs you in points. If your competition shoots faster and shoots reasonable well, you are toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdfwguy Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: A lost second is x amount of pain, a c is y amount of pain. If shooting major y is less relative to x. But in Prod and CO, no one is shooting major, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdfwguy Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sarge said: True, but the further you stray from the A the more it costs you in points. If your competition shoots faster and shoots reasonable well, you are toast. Agree completely. But in Prod and CO, the minor vs major is a moot point. Just trying to get my head straight on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, wdfwguy said: Yeah, I should mentioned that I'm shooting minor. But in Production and CO, isn't everyone scored minor? I mean, you're only competing against people also shooting minor, so it's sort of irrelevant? That is correct but the better shooters in production are going to shoot ~90%+ points and 80%+ Alphas. It's always a game of getting faster and more accurate. It's tough to explain without spending a tremendous amount of time. Read some books & this forum and listen to some podcasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, wdfwguy said: But in Prod and CO, no one is shooting major, right? Not the point. When balancing speed and accuracy, accuracy is more important when shooting minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, wdfwguy said: ...I ended up with the highest number of As in the match, but I was in the bottom 20% in speed... I've been that guy, or at least one of the higher A-hit guys in the match and a lot slower than I thought I was. If you can, set up real classifier stages in live fire sessions, shoot them on the clock and calculate your hit factors. This will advise your match shooting as to the speed-accuracy balance. I find the balance to be somewhat delicate. I can't just blast away or I'll get too many penalties with some 0.0 hit factors, which is obviously no good! And I can't take the time to be more precise than necessary, that'll be too slow. The sweet spot is not all that easy to find. It takes plenty of match experience and smart practice to know how to find it consistently. Be precise when you're shooting at high-disaster factor clusters, and hose them when they're close and the disaster factor is low. Work on everything that can be done faster --- the shooting itself, the draw, reloads, exits and entries, movement in all directions. Video-record yourself to see where you might be wasting time and are unaware of it in the moment. Dry fire as much as you have time and energy for, all kinds of drills. This tends to make you faster at most or all of your gun handling, with less effort. Almost forgot to mention the first thought I had when I read your opening post: it's great you can get the highest number of As in a match! That is an important foundation to have. Plenty of guys cannot do that even if they go slowly. So your challenge, much like mine, is to figure out how to maintain your accuracy when going quite a bit faster. Edited June 25, 2018 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdfwguy Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, IHAVEGAS said: Not the point. When balancing speed and accuracy, accuracy is more important when shooting minor. Ok, got it, that makes perfect sense. I was having a brain fart there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 41 minutes ago, dkamps said: Avoid the C, but don't be afraid of the C. That's the speed I strive for. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Remember USPSA uses hit factor. Hit Factor is your score on a stage minus any penalties divided by time. So if you shoot all A's and take forever to shoot it, your hit factor is lower. If you have a mix of mostly A's with some C's thrown in, but you shoot it fast, your hit factor is higher. A GM shooter I know has a saying "slowing down is never the answer, NEVER! you need to learn to see faster." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 40 minutes ago, Trent1k1 said: You can only learn to shoot faster, by, shooting faster. This is huge. Speed doesn't just "come." We have to pursue it. We have to expose ourselves to faster shooting. Individual practice and club practice matches are good times for that. Be safe always, and test your speed limits. Get used to how it feels to push. Try to see everything! All of these concepts have helped me with the modest improvement I've had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 When I win matches, its rarely (if ever) because I shot the most As. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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