Angus46 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Shot my STI DVC in 40 with Berry’s plated bullets loaded over Power Pistol with CCI primers. Noticed a few unusual marks around some of the holes and a bit baffled to figure out what caused it. Was not every shot, but enough to make me wonder. I feel like it had to be the bullet coming apart but being plated that didn’t seem to make sense. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 It looks like the bullet may have been "tipped slightly" as it went through the target. Do you have any shot at a further distance ?? That would show whether they were tumbling at the further distance and just starting too at the shorter distance your target (above) was shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 The rifling in the barrel or over crimping could be cutting the plating causing tails on the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Are we talking about the strange looking holes or the blue marks at some of the holes?? I assumed the blue marks were put there to show the holes he asked about ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Not sure,op stated strange marks around the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigedp51 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I see nothing wrong with the bullet holes. If the target isn't flat against the cardboard the bullet holes can look non-symmetrical if that is what you are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I was a little puzzled at first also, didn't think plated bullets would leave a blue mark. That is the only reason I finally assumed the blue marks were to denote the holes he was asking about. I may be totally wrong in my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 We will have to wait on op to respond...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Looks to me like the holes are in the cardboard ?? Most of the pasters I've used were pretty well attached to the cardboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus46 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 Thanks for all the replies so far. Yeah what you all are calling the blue marks were from the bullets. I didn’t put them there. If you look they were on the cardboard and pasters. It had to be something on the bullet hittting the target leaving those marks. I only shot out to 10yds this range session. Was mainly working on transitions and speed. Next time I go I’ll move back to 25. That should be far enough to see if it’s tumbling don’t you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus46 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Also the target was free hanging 1/2 size cardboard USPSA target. They were not against anything. Edited June 20, 2018 by Angus46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Yes. I guess the plating was coming off the bullets, although I've never seen that before. I've never used plated bullets, just LSWC and coated so no personal experience with plated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 The yes above meant that 25yds should show if there is any tumbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus46 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 That is what I assumed as well, but have shot thousands of rounds of plated bullets and never saw this befor either. When I crimp I just remove the bell, don’t really squeeze it down much on the bullet so I would not think they were over crimped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus46 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 That will be on the list then for next range session, always good to work on trigger press and accuracy anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) I’m baffled and am interested to hear the answer. If it’s the plating that would still involve mass moving at a high rate of soeed which would tear through to some extent. This is not a tear, it’s a rub. I’m more inclined to say that it’s a discoloration caused by heat or maybe some powder residue caught in the vortex that’s deposited when the vortex hits the cardboard? They are so uniform though... the plating does make sense but it should have punched the paper! How smokey is this load? What’s the specs on your load? Could be the plating “smoking off” if it’s super hot and your seeing the smoke from that caught in the vortex. Or, even more likely, if it’s an open base bullet the blue is vaporized lead trailing behind the bullet and smacking the paper like that when the bullet passed through... maybe... Also, how accurate are the loads? If the bullets have a chunk of plating hanging off the sides then that should be reflected in some pretty horrible accuracy. Edited June 20, 2018 by jkrispies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus46 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, jkrispies said: I’m baffled and am interested to hear the answer. If it’s the plating that would still involve mass moving at a high rate of soeed which would tear through to some extent. This is not a tear, it’s a rub. I’m more inclined to say that it’s a discoloration caused by heat or maybe some powder residue caught in the vortex that’s deposited when the vortex hits the cardboard? They are so uniform though... the plating does make sense but it should have punched the paper! How smokey is this load? What’s the specs on your load? Could be the plating “smoking off” if it’s super hot and your seeing the smoke from that caught in the vortex. Or, even more likely, if it’s an open base bullet the blue is vaporized lead trailing behind the bullet and smacking the paper like that when the bullet passed through... maybe... Also, how accurate are the loads? If the bullets have a chunk of plating hanging off the sides then that should be reflected in some pretty horrible accuracy. 5.3 gr power pistol, it should just make major although I have not put it through a chrono to verify it. Just really getting started with this load and gun. I have not benched it at a distance for accuracy, but it seemed fine out to 10 yds. The first 20 shots I was able to punch the X ring out of a B-27 target offhand before transitioning to the USPSA targets. I was not amazing, accuracy, but didn’t see any issues that would have me worried and about as good as I can shoot offhand with other guns. Unfortunately I didn’t not keep that target to see I feel it did the same thing there. The bulles are plated on all sides, so no lead is exposed. Power Pistol seems to burn pretty clean, not a lot of smoke. The plating didnt quite make sense sense to me either, but looks just like an imprint of one of the rifleing grooves, just sideways and it does not cut through the cardboard. So whatever it was could not have hit with much force. I thought the same thing about the vortex/residue but the uniformity and angle from the hole each time excluded that for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus46 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Got some final answers, and solution to the odd marks. First off I asked a local reloading supply place Graf and Sons in St. Charles Mo. the guy first said he had never seen it either, then when I offered to show him the picture pretty much called me a liar and said I could do anything to a picture....I was stunned and after 35 years of going there, I’m done. Also contacted Berry’s manufacturing through their website. I got an email back in a day or so and then they called on the phone. Like some on the thread have said he was certain it’s the plating coming off the lead core. The cause we had to determine. He indicated that over velocity or too tight of a crimp can cause problems with separation. I’m way under 1200 FPS so that was ruled out pretty quick. He had me pull a bullet and sent him pictures all looked good. Since I use range brass and dont trim the cases he had me do a test at my next range sesssion. It still occasionally happed with all the different case head-stamps. Then a I did some closer analysis the length of the marks are about the length of the base of the bullet. So it was the entire bearing area where the bullet engages the rifling, not a crimp issue. Let Jason at Berry’s know the results of my testing and he asked I send him a few bullets to do some quality control tests on the bullets I had. So sent them his way took a while for them to get them via UPS and then they tested no abnormal results. So he indicated they have seen this before although rarely with match quality barrels where the rifling and in some cases tight tolerances will cut through the plating, thus opening up a pedal of plating copper leaving the marks on the target, and of course at longer distances a pretty negative affect on accuracy. Solution, they have a thicker plated bullet and he gave me a deal on them for working with him. I was like great! Felt more like he was working with me to find out the problem. Very happy with their service and assistance. I’ve always liked Berry’s products now very happy with them. Graf and Sons on the other had.....I’ll never go back after being treated so negatively by a guy who was a total jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Glad you resolved the issue, and thanks for sharing the answer with us … I wouldn't be so tough on Graf - that was probably just one employee - I wouldn't let a single employee sour me on a company that has some pretty good products/features - but, that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuJudge Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I have two Beretta barrels that give me problems with plating spalling off, but it looks quite different than that. The bullets I have had it happen on are factory loaded Blazer Brass. The marks around the bullet holes look like little throwing stars have hit the target, little pieces of copper sometimes not completely piercing it and the backer. Most of the Beretta barrels I have are factory barrels, and have a groove diameter almost .358". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 4:35 PM, ParaGunner said: The rifling in the barrel or over crimping could be cutting the plating causing tails on the bullet. So it was the plating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I had some trouble with the belling/powder assembly on my ancient Dillon, causing inconsistent belling and other woes. A few of my plated bullets ended up partly outside the case, while retaining a shape that just barely chambered in my pistol. Weird. I shot some, before I noticed ... and got pretty normal looking bullet holes in close range paper targets - and some shreds of thin metal stuck in the cardboard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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