9mm Blue Bullets sized .355 vs. other coated at .356

[ddc]

Blue Bullets get a lot of positive feedback and I have no reason to argue as I've used thousands of their 147 RN and have several thousand waiting and will probably order more.

 

But I'm curious that they size consistently at .355 while it seems that most other coated bullets are sized at .356 (and some even offer a .357).

 

I've read a lot of threads where accuracy didn't come until the loader started using .356 or larger with lead or coated bullets. I do understand that bore sizes can be all over the map and there needs to be a reasonable match between bore size and projectile.

 

Even so  it seems somewhat contradictory and I wanted to see what might be going on here.

 

Is it as simple as if you are a happy Blue Bullet user then it is because you have a good match with your barrel?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

Order a sample pack of blues. Load them. If they group well at distance, then buy in bulk.

 

Just like sny other bullet and gun combination - no reason to overthink it.  

 

FYI, Acme is as cheap when you find a discount code. Sometimes cheaper. And they run .356ish. 

 

Try both.

[IDescribe]

When the bullet enters the rifling, the lands engrave the bullet and turn the bullet as it passes down the barrel.   That is a lot of lateral force being applied against the walls of a few shallow grooves, and the grooves needs to be deep enough to stand up to that force.  

 

With copper jacketed rounds, the copper is strong enough with shallower grooves than what lead needs to stand up to that force.  So .355 is standard for jacketed and .356 is standard for lead. 

 

My CZ ShadowLine does prefer bullets oversized.   It does very well with .355 jacketed and .356 lead, but it does a hair better with .001 bigger in both cases.  With  undersized lead at .355, however, such as Blue Bullets, out of 10 bullets, 7 or 8 will print tightly, but 2-3 will be flyers, NOT wild flyers, but siginifcant flyers nonetheless, significant enough to matter to me.

 

That's part of the equation here in the forums that all users need to think about - - people's expectations or testing or lack thereof.  One guy shoots 10 rounds at 25 yards off a bench, and can't get the 10 bullets to print tighter than 8 inside a 2-inch circle, plus  the other 2 slung out to 3 or 4 inches, and that shooter says "Nope, not good enough," puts those in the practice pile and moves on to develop loads with a new bullet.  The next guy shoots 5 offhand at 7 yards into a man-sized target for a 15-inch group and says "Whoo hoo hoo!  Merica!"  Then, when someone starts a thread asking for bullet recommendations, both those guys report their pet loads as very accurate.  And the guy who can't shoot notes that the gun is more accurate than he is. 

 

Blues are unacceptably imprecise in my ShadowLine.   Given that my ShadowLine shows a clear preference for oversized bullets, I know why they aren't as precise as I'd like.   But Blues are lasers in my VP9 and Glock. They're good bullets, just good for only those pistols that do well with undersized bullets.  

 

I suspect most people shooting Blues would do better with a different bullet. I also wonder if it's a coincidence that my two pistols that love them are my two pistols with polygonal rifling, but I don't have the sample size of 9mm pistols to test that out, so I don't make assumptions on the matter.  Could easily be a coincidence.   It's just a thought. 

 

Cast bullet gurus will tell you that "fit is king" and that most guns do better with bullets a thousandth or two bigger than standard.  Give some ACME or BBI a try.   And once I get my Gallant bullets tested, I may add them to the "recommended" list.  

 

Edited to fix a bunch of type-os and to increase clarity

 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by IDescribe

[Hi-Power Jack]

Excellent description, Idescribe    

 

Especially for 4:30 a.m.    

[bowenbuilt]

I was one of the first shooters here to promote Blue Bullets. At the time they were sizing them .356 and they were more than accurate  in all of my guns. I shot a truck load of them and was very pleased with the resulting accuracy.  There were only a few companies doing coated bullets at the time and there were a lot of people having a hard time loading them without scraping the coating. Blue caved to the complaints and started sizing all of their bullets to .355 thinking this would ease the pain. When i received the first batch of the smaller sized bullets i experienced smoke and leading, the accuracy i previously obtained was gone at distance. I complained and was told that .355 was what they were going to be and that they would not offer anything larger. I moved on to ACME and have been there since.  Regardless of what the thought on this is a soft coated bullet needs to be larger than the groove size to function properly and the undersized bullets definitely did not work for me.

[Steve RA]

My 9mm with a Kart barrel is most accurate with a .358 125gr flat nose from Precision Bullets in Kemp, Texas.

[bowenbuilt]

14 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Order a sample pack of blues. Load them. If they group well at distance, then buy in bulk.

 

Just like sny other bullet and gun combination - no reason to overthink it.  

 

FYI, Acme is as cheap when you find a discount code. Sometimes cheaper. And they run .356ish. 

 

Try both.

enos10   should always get you 10% off everyday.

[IDescribe]

On 6/19/2018 at 5:34 AM, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Especially for 4:30 a.m.    

 

In bed, groggy, on my phone -- SO many type-os. 

[IDescribe]

On 6/19/2018 at 6:06 AM, bowenbuilt said:

I was one of the first shooters here to promote Blue Bullets. At the time they were sizing them .356 and they were more than accurate  in all of my guns. ...a lot of people having a hard time loading them without scraping the coating. Blue caved to the complaints and started sizing all of their bullets to .355 

 

I moved on to ACME and have been there since.  

 

That's interesting to know regarding Blue Bullets as all I've head publicly was that they found .355 to best performing.  That's the first I've heard of it being a coating scraping issue.  Not surprising, though. 

I also get leading in my CZ with the .355.  I know a couple of guys shoooting the Blue 125gr .358 in 9mm with no leading and excellent precision.  But ACME has been top dog for coated though since I tried them.  And I'm looking forward to testing Gallant. 

[sweatpants]

I experience acceptable accuracy in my PCC, Q5, and Shadow.  Multiple people have written and said that BBs aren't accurate in their CZs.  That said, I think @MemphisMechanic's approach is the one to take regardless of what you see online.  Test with a sample pack before committing to a volume purchase.  

[floater]

You can get Blues in .356 in 125 and 147 grain, special order profile.

[36873687]

I’ve shot more blues in 40. In 9 just in Glock’s an pcc. I have started practicing with open gun with 125 grain 355. Do get the flyer u guys are talking about

[IDescribe]

Don't shoot coated in open unless you want a comp full of crud. 

[Dr. Phil]

I tried lots of bullets in my 929 and found the accuracy poor. Most were sized .355 or .356. Then I tried some Blue Bullets I had for my .38s. They are sized .3575.to .358. They shoot like lasers! I will definitely order more soon.

I shoot coated bullets usually for practice because my bullet guy sells them to me for $50/K. He was sizing @ .3565 and they were fine. Then he too bowed to the whiners and went to .355. Accuracy went downhill quickly. I just ordered more form him at .3565 or .357.

Matching the size to the bore seems more of a solution then the "buy this, try that" direction.

YMMV

[rishii]

I’ve been shooting blue bullets for 3 years or so, started with their 124s in my open gun which I found to give me acceptable performance at 2/3 the cost of jhp.

I’m currently using the 115s in open pushing them to1500fps, and in pcc

135s in production and SS

165s in L10

in all of my guns I haven’t experienced any leading in the barrel including my open gun load

they do smoke, about the same as fmj

they do lead up the comp, about the same as fmj, and I found the easiest solution is to swab the comp with kroil after I shoot and let it sit until the next time I shoot it where the crud gets blown out

as far as accuracy goes, I’ve found them to acceptable, which for me is 10 rounds in the upper A at 20 yards standing 

which is something I could never do with any plated or Montana gold bullets

but like everything else in life YMMV

 

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, rishii said:

...I found the easiest solution is to swab the comp with kroil after I shoot and let it sit until the next time I shoot it where the crud gets blown out...

 

That is a great idea!

 

I keep a container of PB Blaster (a close cousin of kroil that works nearly as well) on my bench to soak my PCCs comp in overnight, muzzle placed in a jar. I use PB because it works like kroil, and is avaiable by the gallon from home depot.

 

You just saved me the “and then scrub out it the next day” part. I’ll give this a try.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[36873687]

4 hours ago, IDescribe said:

Don't shoot coated in open unless you want a comp full of crud. 

Glass beed the Comp. Clean as new after. 10 seconds

[mchapman]

You can get the 147 rn and the 125 rn,  from Blue bullets sized to .357, just order from the .38 page. These work great in my 929 and my 627.

Edited June 20, 2018 by mchapman

[IDescribe]

2 hours ago, mchapman said:

You can get the 147 rn and the 125 rn,  from Blue bullets sized to .357, just order from the .38 page. These work great in my 929 and my 627.

 

But in 9mm, to seat the .357 short enough to be out of the lands in short-chambered pistols like a CZ, the base is over .300 deep into the case, which can cause other problems.  So will work great for some guns, but not for others.

[Steve RA]

Use the 125 gr, it shouldn't seat too deeply.

[MemphisMechanic]

What @Steve RA said. Part of the reason I prefer 125s over 147s is because I can load them to 1.095” to chamber in EVERYTHING and not worry about pressing them back into the case far enough to cause bulging and deformation.

[wtturn]

All I can offer is anecdotal evidence, but BBI bullets in the various bullet weights and profiles @ .356 were more accurate across the board from their Blue counterparts @ .355 in my Glocks.

In some weights the difference was marginal, in some weights it was significant. And I'm not the best group shooter in the world. So ymmv.

Not to bash Blue Bullets. By all accounts they are an amazing company and they do a ton of match sponsorships for which they are commended.

I would like to test their .356 offerings to see if that brings them up to par.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[IDescribe]

9 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Use the 125 gr, it shouldn't seat too deeply.

 

^^^^^^^^^  Testify!  ^^^^^^^^^^

 

FAR too much is made out of heavy-for-caliber bullets and softer felt recoil.  The shooter should drive the pistol, not the bullet.  124/125gr bullets have fewer loading pitfalls and are typically easier to extract accuracy from.  

[Lexor40cal]

The 0.355" & 0.356" issue is all down to if a manufacturer whats to mess with both or standardize on one for both 9mm and .38 super/comp

 

Zero used to make the two different diameters in all of their weight/shape offerings. Many years ago they did away with that and made only the one diameter for each, which many other manufacturers also now.

 

It would be interesting to find out if the coated bullet manufacturers just double dip their products to gain the additional 0.001"

 

Anyone here able to answer that?

[sweatpants]

1 hour ago, IDescribe said:

 

^^^^^^^^^  Testify!  ^^^^^^^^^^

 

FAR too much is made out of heavy-for-caliber bullets and softer felt recoil.  The shooter should drive the pistol, not the bullet.  124/125gr bullets have fewer loading pitfalls and are typically easier to extract accuracy from.  

 

I'm not knowledgeable about the benefits/pitfalls of 124/125 vs 147s, could you share?