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Cgoliver970

Transition training help

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What is the ideal transition drill? My summer goal is to transition out of B class by improving transitions.

 

So far I do ye ol' first 12 drills from Steve Anderson's Refinement and Repetition. My only transition practice is on the el prez array. For me these short transitions end up more of a timing exercise when I push hard across the array.  I feel like there are several different kinds of transitions:

 

  1. el prez type - short transition, same target difficulty.
  2. distance change up - short transition, different target difficulty.
  3. wide transition within normal stance (one where I have to move my head to see the next target).
  4. wide transition that I have to move my feet for.

 

Does each type of transition need practiced individually or will working on the hardest transition exclusively trickle down to easier transitions? I am thinking 180 degree transition from 5yd target to steel for the hardest possibility.

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Are you doing any of these in live fire or just dry?

 

One way to speed up in Dry Fire is widening the El Prez / Standard Practice Setup array. Keep moving them apart while maintaining the same par time.

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5 minutes ago, SCTaylor said:

Are you doing any of these in live fire or just dry?

 

One way to speed up in Dry Fire is widening the El Prez / Standard Practice Setup array. Keep moving them apart while maintaining the same par time.


I run tons of Stoeger's Accelerator drill in live fire. Other than that I haven't practiced transition in live fire much. I will try spreading those targets out in dryfire tonight.

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You can do the same with Blake Drills in live fire. Set them  up 1 yard apart and start moving them out.

 

I like to setup 1 or 2 drills specific to the skill I'm training that day, run 5-8 times each. After that, setup a "mini-stage" to incorporate the skill  I've been working on.

 

 

For instance last night I worked on trigger control at speed/distance. Setup Accelerator then went to 20yd Doubles.  Then switched to a "mini-stage" similar to Distance Change-up with two shooting positions.

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I would definitely practice different kinds of transitions. I’ve heard on a podcast (I think it was the Shoot Fast Podcast) that one of the hosts had an issue when he only trained wide transitions in dry fire. He learned to push the gun hard and transition fast on wide transitions, but tended to overswing close transitions and drop a lot of points. Just something to consider. 

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Two skills that for me degrade quickly without practice is transitions and reloads.  Almost any of the drills you listed will help you improve and then keep your transitions good, but you will need to keep practicing.  If I go even a week without dryfire, it shows.

 

If you get a chance look at a thread Brian started years ago.  "Transition Drill Part 1".  

 

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Remember to constantly look at your data with regards to transition times and split times. It's not just about breezing the gun through an array of targets as fast as possible. Its reducing the "non shooting" time so that you don't end up rushing the "shooting" time.

 

It's an exercise in leading the gun with your EYES first and the hands will follow. Muscling the gun might seem fast, but the hits will suffer. 

 

Transitions can be worked thoroughly in dryfire, so don't get too hung up on just working them in livefire.

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Steel Challenge is good for Transitions.  Another good drill is the Hopkins drill.

hopkins3 (2).jpg

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For dry fire practice i like  random target arrays.   At first it's a little tough to tell if you're making progress because the drill "is never the same", but after a few sessions you'll see it.  

Edited by uewpew

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Whatever drill you do to improve transitions, don't lock into just one drill.  You need to mix it up to assure you are not learning something you do not want to learn.

 

For a while now I've been working with a plate rack to improve transitions.  I'd practice at 10 yards and 25 yards.  To save ammo and reset time, I would shoot three plates at a time.

 

Earlier this month we had a stage that included two plate racks.  So I engage a couple of targets, move to the plate rack and shoot three plates, pause, then finish the rack.  Did this on both racks.  After "show clear" it hit me.  I shot them like I practice them.  

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what exactly are you wanting to improve with regards to transitions? How are you quantifying improvement?

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54 minutes ago, TimH said:

what exactly are you wanting to improve with regards to transitions? How are you quantifying improvement?

 

I guess my immediate goal is to improve my transition technique with the ultimate goal of transitioning faster and more accurately. The last couple dryfire sessions I have been practicing without the timer and quantifying improvement by what I see and feel.

 

I try to feel a sense of urgency moving my eyes to the next target, I try to see a specific spot on the target to aim at, I try to move my focus back to the front sight before getting on the trigger. I am also trying to not feel any muscling of the gun like you suggested. So far it feels weird... which I like because I know that I am doing something different and hopefully better. I can tell that my poor results to date have been from being lazy with my eyes, not swinging the gun too slow. 

 

In related news, I get the feeling that this work will shave some time off my reloads as well. (transition eyes to gun and then to next target, stage marker, etc.) 

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Your misses are primarily right-left? 

 

If so I have been working on the same problem. Besides getting the eyes there faster have been wondering about the basic mechanics of maintaining gun alignment. In my case I am wondering if a bit more bend in the elbows would create a stronger/more stable means of maintaining right-left alignment, besides the fact that a shorter radius of swing seems like more efficient movement. Possibly something for you to experiment with??

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On 7/4/2018 at 9:00 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

Your misses are primarily right-left? 

 

If so I have been working on the same problem. Besides getting the eyes there faster have been wondering about the basic mechanics of maintaining gun alignment. In my case I am wondering if a bit more bend in the elbows would create a stronger/more stable means of maintaining right-left alignment, besides the fact that a shorter radius of swing seems like more efficient movement. Possibly something for you to experiment with??

Yup, misses are right-left across the target because I am never getting the gun stopped on individual targets. I went back and re-read Charlie Perez's thoughts in his book. He suggest driving transitions with the legs and keeping the upper body rigid "like a tank turret". I had great success with this in my first live fire session. The feeling I am chasing is snapping my hips to each target in addition to my eyes. Charlie goes as far as to propose never even moving your head separately from your upper body in transitions, that should solve the alignment problem since everything from the hips up should stay in perfect alignment throughout. I find that super weird feeling in dry fire practice and have just been leaving that aspect out, even so, way more control when it comes to swinging the gun.   

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Have you taken a training class from anyone yet? I would suggest starting there as an effective trainer will be able to immediately point out your transitioning flaws and get you on the right path. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 3:56 PM, Cgoliver970 said:

What is the ideal transition drill? My summer goal is to transition out of B class by improving transitions.

 

So far I do ye ol' first 12 drills from Steve Anderson's Refinement and Repetition. My only transition practice is on the el prez array. For me these short transitions end up more of a timing exercise when I push hard across the array.  I feel like there are several different kinds of transitions:

 

  1. el prez type - short transition, same target difficulty.
  2. distance change up - short transition, different target difficulty.
  3. wide transition within normal stance (one where I have to move my head to see the next target).
  4. wide transition that I have to move my feet for.

 

Does each type of transition need practiced individually or will working on the hardest transition exclusively trickle down to easier transitions? I am thinking 180 degree transition from 5yd target to steel for the hardest possibility.

 

I happen to be in the same boat (class, goal and current drills). 

 

I’d recommend getting Cha-lee’s book, Path of focused effort. It had some great info in there: grip, footwork and and transitions in particular. 

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2 hours ago, Paulie said:

 

I happen to be in the same boat (class, goal and current drills). 

 

I’d recommend getting Cha-lee’s book, Path of focused effort. It had some great info in there: grip, footwork and and transitions in particular. 

 

Already got the book and love it. Now he is here trying to talk me into a class ;)  

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Brian has a transition drills, right? It comes in two parts, search here. It will help you to get your transition faster if you are not fast enough.

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Another good drill is setting up 2 steel targets and emptying a mag back and forth between them.

 

it can definitely help speed up your eye speed

 

That's all practice is for really, speeding up how fast you can interpret information

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Shannon Smith posted a video one time on facebook of a practice session. He had a plate rack and a target on either side (or something similar). He would shoot 2 on the left paper transition to one steel on the plate rack, and then transition to the paper on the right. He would then mix it up with transition directions and what he shot first. (Paper steel paper, steel paper paper, etc...) It was a very simple drill with many variations to work on your transitions. I do these drills at most of my practice sessions and seem to be improving. 

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I would recommend the following to improve transitions:

 

The end state is the ability to look at the point on impact on the target and have your body subconsciously move the body/arms/hands to align the pistol, ending in a subconscious trigger pull cycle when an acceptable sight picture is attained.

 

Unfortunately it will take a long time to de-train the conscious effort that most shooters use to manipulate the pistol and pull the trigger.

 

Regardless of the target set up in the practice session, experiment with the following steps:

 

1. with a holstered pistol, look at the first point of impact on the first target

2. upon the start signal allow your body to execute the draw - aim - trigger pull sequence without consciously trying to go fast or accurate (this will obviously be very slow at first but gets faster as you practice it).  The goal is to use your visual point of impact as the conscious focus and for everything else to happen automatically.

3. add a second and third target with the idea that the transitions also happen subconsciously (no deliberate effort to moving the pistol to the next target)

 

This is hard to describe without showing you the particulars so let me know if you have questions.

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To impove transition, I think the best way is dry fire..Just put many targets on your wall at home and do transiton between them, and call your shots.... Near to far, far to near, left right, right letf, hard to easy, easy to hard etc...

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I am new shooter and trying to improve my transition. Tried BEnos Transition drill. transition time is around 0.5-0.6 for all alpha. So total time for 9 shots are still around 8 s. 

 

not sure what his part 2 is as he is not yet replying yet. 

 

What is the correct eye focus:

1. Call the shot
2. Find next target
3. Magically by feeling waiting for your sight to appear on target?

 

or

3. Track your sight to your target

 

 

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